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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Coinvexed - Third Generation (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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tomsk192
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Fair enough, lunatik. Your point is well made. I'm a geezer, so I do a switch. Even if I owned an expensive bender, (that sounds so wrong), I would probably still do a good switch. Just for fun.
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On 2013-02-27 20:24, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-27 20:16, lunatik wrote:
Mark is right in that we need to connect with our spectator.

I actually thought that was the point kissathingamy (no disrespect intended, it was just too late at night to go back and check the spelling) was making. I hasten to add when I said that I didn't think there was much in his post that people who understand the art could dismiss that was before the tone and content of those posts had gone downhill..

Mark


It went downhill the moment I had to repeat myself for the umpteenth time and Lunatik became pretty insulting. Smh. Tried to be civil and thorough with my points only to get insulted, totally sucked me into the whole bad manners ordeal.

You've also explained my points well as well Mark. No worries about proper spelling of my username. I've used it for years Smile
kissdadookie
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On 2013-02-27 20:27, lunatik wrote:
Yeah, I never ever would disagree that one needs to come with their spectators. IMO, one would just be a move monkey and your spectator reactions wouldn't be as good as they could be. Just my thoughts!


You have many thoughts but you also have been contradicting yourself. Think about it, you've been trying to prove that the QB is the best. The best at what exactly? Does it add to the effect? No. Even you yourself even stated that the method is irrelevant and use whatever one likes to get the job done. That's what I was saying from the beginning. I simply do not understand what you are trying to defend here because what you've ended up saying at the end just completely contradicts your point of the QB being the best because even you've said, the method really is irrelevant. So why the heck have you been arguing with me in the first place apart from wanting to ruffle my feathers? You also missed the plot entirely with why I bring up Hot Ring, I never on this thread that it's the best routine, I've stated incredibly clearly that I've pointed it out due to what a performer can learn from it and the Building Blocks book in general. It's not even concepts which are exclusive to Building Blocks, but Building Blocks is a very good one stop shop to learn these basic fundamentals without having to source all this information together from several other books (magic as well as mentalism books).

I have a good feeling that you simply just forgot that to properly and effectively reply to something, you actually need to thoroughly READ and UNDERSTAND what you are replying to instead of just jumping to conclusions, becoming defensive, and going around all over the place with your thoughts like a headless chicken.
tomsk192
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I would go further, and suggest that some of these coin-benders may not be capable of a basic s****, let alone a more sophisticated procedure.
bonesly
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I think Mark has hit the nail on the head.

I do completely understand Kissdadookie points as well (although I have never read the Hot ring routine), but Lunatik is correct as well, you can perform many different types of coin bend routines.
I prefer a visual bend, this way everyone gets to experience the magic and I don't have to rely on one spectators reactions to sell the experience.

If signing the coin is important in your routine then QB2.0 is probably the best method for achieving that. However other coin bending tools such as the CV2 are also very good.

QB2 or CV2 are also great for pre-bending coins
Mark_Chandaue
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Quote:
On 2013-02-27 20:46, tomsk192 wrote:
I would go further, and suggest that some of these coin-benders may not be capable of a basic s****, let alone a more sophisticated procedure.

It's funny you should say that, Dynamo did a coin bend on his show and the switch was so painfully bad it made me cringe literally. Haha that kind of makes my point about success not necessarily being a measure of skill. Interestingly every time I have seen Dynamo perform on a show other than his own he has used a Svengali deck and know he isn't the guy I referred to in my earlier post lol.
Mark Chandaue A.I.M.C.
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tomsk192
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Quote:
On 2013-02-27 21:01, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-27 20:46, tomsk192 wrote:
I would go further, and suggest that some of these coin-benders may not be capable of a basic s****, let alone a more sophisticated procedure.

It's funny you should say that, Dynamo did a coin bend on his show and the switch was so painfully bad it made me cringe literally. Haha that kind of makes my point about success not necessarily being a measure of skill. Interestingly every time I have seen Dynamo perform on a show other than his own he has used a Svengali deck and know he isn't the guy I referred to in my earlier post lol.


Yes, a bad s**** is as bad as a bad anything else.
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On 2013-02-27 21:10, tomsk192 wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-27 21:01, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-27 20:46, tomsk192 wrote:
I would go further, and suggest that some of these coin-benders may not be capable of a basic s****, let alone a more sophisticated procedure.

It's funny you should say that, Dynamo did a coin bend on his show and the switch was so painfully bad it made me cringe literally. Haha that kind of makes my point about success not necessarily being a measure of skill. Interestingly every time I have seen Dynamo perform on a show other than his own he has used a Svengali deck and know he isn't the guy I referred to in my earlier post lol.


Yes, a bad switch is as bad as a bad anything else.


A method is just a method folks. Back to basics and master whatever method you're using.
tomsk192
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I should have added the caveat "Yes, a switch is as bad as anything else, when done badly". Apologies.

But a good use of Svengali is a nod towards greatness. Doncha'know?
paisa23
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I WISH I COULD SEE THIS!!!
Mark_Chandaue
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Haha the Svengali deck holds too many bad memories for me. In the old days when I was the Hamleys resident magician (when their magic department was aimed at professionals) we had a separate Svengali counter and Bob the Svengali demonstrator (who was actually a really good mentalist) quit just before Christmas when we would shift 500 Svengali decks a day. So guess who got lumbered standing in for him and had to run through the same sales pitch over and over again "Come and see the magic cards, they do tricks they do magic they do miracles ......
Mark Chandaue A.I.M.C.
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Ophiuchus is available from
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bonesly
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Hahahaha I used to work at Hamleys as well. Calum and Bruce trained me. Bruce is still there!
Zombie Magic
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"The best" is subjective. You can take a true master card manipulator with a normal deck, that has a very dry approach and not entertaining and he will pale to someone that uses a Svengali Deck, but he connects with people. Same with coin bending.

"The best" is what works best for you.
Mark_Chandaue
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Quote:
On 2013-02-27 21:38, bonesly wrote:
Hahahaha I used to work at Hamleys as well. Calum and Bruce trained me. Bruce is still there!
When were you there? I didn't get any training but back then the resident magician job was effectively a gig. I auditioned and was given the job and the nearest I got to training was someone showing me how to work the till. I left Hamleys around about '85 and rather than getting a new resident magician they closed the magic department and replaced it with a Marvins magic concession..
Mark Chandaue A.I.M.C.
Harpacrown is available from
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Ophiuchus is available from
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lunatik
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Dookie, I've addressed you in inner thoughts to clear you up once again
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On 2013-02-27 23:35, lunatik wrote:
Dookie, I've addressed you in inner thoughts to clear you up once again


There must be something seriously wrong with you. It's quite apparent that you for some reason have this infatuation with wanting to argue with me. Look at how many times the points I've made on this thread has been agreed upon by other members and yet instead of acknowledging that you maybe should not have been so pointlessly defensive about your preferred coin bend method, you basically nodded your heads at the other posts by others effectively going "yes I agree" and basically just pretended that what I've made said in several posts here already never happened. Give it a rest, seriously.

What exactly is there to clear up? The facts here are:

1) You are arguing that QB is the best method. If that's the case please substantiate that claim with how it improves coin bend routines in general.
2) You've openly stated that these are just methods and they could all well be equally good, this is what you have stated yourself, if that's the case, your entire point about QB being the best is a point which you yourself have now completely negated.
3) You have been basically arguing with me here and claiming that I'm trying to imply such and such routine is better than such and such another routine. If you had bothered to actually read my posts thoroughly, you would have seen that this is obviously not the case, yet you are pointing fingers and completely twisting my intentions and the content of my posts.
4) Finally, your now trying to essentially pole people in what is a very transparent attempt at hoping to be able to come back later to go "hey, see, you weren't right! Told you so!"

Seriously, I have no clue how you could be this egotistical and childish. It's quite ridiculous. Like I've said in my initial posts in this thread, yes you may get great reactions. Yes you can do coin bends the "magician" way, it's all perfectly fine but at the end, your shorting the potential of the effect. It could be much more. I've learned this again, through experience, through using various methods, through experimenting with different routines. I at the minimum have the collective knowledge of all that work and experimentation put in to be able to give my take and views on the subject. You on the other hand, what exactly qualifies you to tell people what is the best coin bend or method when it's quite obvious that you've never bothered to experiment beyond what you have learned off of commercially available methods and effects which you've essentially just followed pretty much verbatim from the included instructions? Simple simple simple question here, what do you have to qualify and substantiate your constant claims that QB is the best. Need I remind you that each and every time you've made the claim that QB is the best, you've said it in such a way as if it was scripture as opposed to stating that FOR YOU it's the best. Again, what do you have in comparison? You're obviously unable to quantify and substantiate your claims. You're like some ignorant child that only ever had burgers from McDonald's running around telling people that McDonald's has the best burgers.
lunatik
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Downstairs tard, kapeeesh?
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On 2013-02-28 00:10, lunatik wrote:
Downstairs tard, kapeeesh?


Wow, it's a bit sad that again, you just feel like resorting to insults.

Here are some of your own posts lunatik:

"My thoughts are that if a utility device makes it easier to perform the effect, I will pay the premium for that luxury."

So, how does it make it easier? Compared to what? Whatever it is you are comparing it to, have you tried the alternative method and fully worked the alternatives? All you are implying with that post is essentially "QB is the best and easiest so I happily paid $500-$600 because I'm just going to blindly assume it is the best and easiest, says so on the ad copy and random people agree on the Café!!!"

Or how about this choice post of yours:

"Dookie, you are misguided. A pre-bend's effeciency is COMPLETELY thrown out the window when they noticed that the California coin they gave you is now Oregon! Nothing wrong with you using Buiding Blocks as I'm using some of Skins techniques. I think all of your arguments on this specific subject belong in Penny IMO. There are magicians"

Any experienced performer could have easily seen that your state quarters argument is a completely moot point since there's so many different ways to get around that, like the fact that there is no rule anywhere stating that you have to do coin bends with quarters. Duh.

Let's end off this post with this final choice post you've made:

"You can and should definitely 'aim' for the best outcome, but don't discredit your spectators, they're as dumb as some mentalists or magicians think. I personally use Skin for presentation and it has served me well as I know how to milk it. If one is old school and only use billets and prebent coins, that's perfectly fine, I'm sure they get mileage. But if one uses a Mindpad or a Coinvexed or QB so they can concentrate more on the presentation than the method, more power to him. That's the path a lot of us have chosen and there's nothing wrong with it if we choose to pay the premium to do so."

Again, you're making a lot of blind assumptions here. You are stating that other methods require more work or need more concentration to pull off, yet you are still yet able to explain how QB makes it easier than doing a f**se t*k*/p*t/tr****er.

I've brought up all these points already and all you've done has been to ignore them and just go off on other tangents or circle back on your illogical arguments and then ultimately contradict yourself with your post of "oh, it's just a method, can't we be allowed to have preferences?!?" I mean, come on, seriously. Not only that, but instead of addressing these questions I brought up to you, you not only completely ignore them but then just end up calling me names. Really childish and completely shows your nature.
lunatik
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That's what I thought, stay on this thread, you know that you're done lol

See you tomorrow!
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On 2013-02-28 00:24, lunatik wrote:
That's what I thought, stay on this thread, you know that you're done lol


Why would I bother with that other thread? It's clear that you've created that thread for the sole purpose of serving your ridiculous ego. It's really childish and pathetic. You know it, I know it, other people do as well. Good luck on that thread becoming meaningful.
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