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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Coinvexed - Third Generation (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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kissdadookie
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Quote:
On 2013-01-28 14:05, bonesly wrote:


On 2013-01-21 14:48, Jordanogrady wrote:

Coinvexed one uses 2 hands of spare change.
Coinvexed 2 uses a pen and one hand of spare change


I reckon Coinvexed 3 uses 2 pens and no change. Which is a the next logical step in the evolution of this method.
[/quote]

Yah know, if you were to paint the other half matte black with Coinvexed 2, you wouldn't really need that handful of change Smile
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I don't want to judge until I see the effect, but I am happy with, and have never had a problem with having 'a few coins' in my hand, if only to offer one of them if the spec doesn't have a coin.
Two pens... don't see the benefit myself but I'm sure this will find a lot of happy owners. I don't think I would be tempted by an upgrade pack either, although always open to new info.

Having said that, did anyone see the Spellmann bend routine on the Alakazam Vlog? unsigned, but very nicely done I thought... Kudos to Mr S.

Charlie
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On 2013-01-28 14:19, bonesly wrote:

But after years of performing the coin-bend both signed and un-signed I'm starting to think that all this signing of coins is unnecessary. Lay people still react to the effect the same way.


I don't personally agree with this! A signed coin is 10 times stronger!

Jordan
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Has to be signed for maximum effect.

Otherwise there is always the thought of a switch to achieve this impossible effect.
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Quote:
On 2013-02-19 16:34, puggo wrote:
I don't want to judge until I see the effect, but I am happy with, and have never had a problem with having 'a few coins' in my hand, if only to offer one of them if the spec doesn't have a coin.
Two pens... don't see the benefit myself but I'm sure this will find a lot of happy owners. I don't think I would be tempted by an upgrade pack either, although always open to new info.

Having said that, did anyone see the Spellmann bend routine on the Alakazam Vlog? unsigned, but very nicely done I thought... Kudos to Mr S.

Charlie


I don't see a problem with having a handful of change initially, however, by the time they are signing the coin, or at the latest when they are handing it back to you, those extra coins should be gone. There's no reason you would continue to hold a handful of change that no longer has anything to do with the effect.

As for the idea of two markers, I believe that was just speculation, and doesn't make any sense as any sort of improvement.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
PWRIS
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Quote:
On 2013-02-19 17:53, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-19 16:34, puggo wrote:
I don't want to judge until I see the effect, but I am happy with, and have never had a problem with having 'a few coins' in my hand, if only to offer one of them if the spec doesn't have a coin.
Two pens... don't see the benefit myself but I'm sure this will find a lot of happy owners. I don't think I would be tempted by an upgrade pack either, although always open to new info.

Having said that, did anyone see the Spellmann bend routine on the Alakazam Vlog? unsigned, but very nicely done I thought... Kudos to Mr S.

Charlie


I don't see a problem with having a handful of change initially, however, by the time they are signing the coin, or at the latest when they are handing it back to you, those extra coins should be gone. There's no reason you would continue to hold a handful of change that no longer has anything to do with the effect.

As for the idea of two markers, I believe that was just speculation, and doesn't make any sense as any sort of improvement.


Hi guys, I have had Coinvexed 2 from day 1 (almost) and I must say I carry it with me everyday. When you offer your spectator a coin from the "loose" change, you have them sign it and after taking it back you then offer them a second coin to mark (I use Zodiac signs) it is at this stage you work your magic Smile and by the time they have finished the "loose" change is out of play. It is all totaly logical and I have never had a problem with it.
Oh, and who came up with the two markers idea (do they sign in stereo Smile)

Best Paul
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puggo
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Paul summed it up well. I am definitely not saying CV2 is the 'best' etc, but would agree that with even a basic routine, there is never any issues with holding the coins as decsribed by Paul.

Others have incorporated the 'coins' gimmick into other natural-ish props e.g. coin purse, some have just a one coin routine...

Charlie
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Paul, that makes sense. I actually had started to think about that as a framing to justify still having the change.
Of course that means adding to your routine for the purposes of covering a move/prop.

I think that, as I understand things, QB is a better gaff for allowing the most direct routine and minimal extra props.

The only drawback I see is needing to switch the marker.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
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First let me state I do not own or have seen QB in action (except on the video trailer) It would appear that with QB you take out your sharpie and have them sign the coin, you then place the sharpie back into your pocket only seconds later to take it out again, this to me seems a little suspect Smile with Coinvexed the objects (Sharpie & Coins) are in full view until the "Magic" is done.

The second strong point for Coinvexed is that the "bending" takes place in the hands of the spectator both physiologicly and psycologicly (they feel the coin move 9/10 and with the smallest amount of "spectator managment" they feel it bend ! ) this to me is far stronger than having the coin bend in my hand.

As I stated in my earlier post I use a Zodiac theme, first I "divine" thier sign and then have them draw the sign on the second coin. The "power" of thier Z sign then bends the first coin.

As to minimal extra props with QB you have the coins and the sharpie ( or two ;-) ) and with Coinvexed you have the coins and the sharpie.

Please note that these are of course only my opinions based on using CV2 for several years now and as they say each to their own.

Best Paul
Paul W. Randall
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Quote:
On 2013-02-19 17:47, chappelly wrote:
Has to be signed for maximum effect.

Otherwise there is always the thought of a switch to achieve this impossible effect.


When I am at a gig I will occasionally use QB2, but most of the time professionally and in casual situations I will do a switch. The reactions I get for both effects are the same. Signing a coin adds another layer of impossibility to magicians but lay people don't really think like this. Its not natural to sign a coin and it adds an unnecessary step in the routine. The handling is also a lot cleaner using a switch than to use a bender.

However it does depend on your routine and how you execute your techniques. Some magicians are just not good at doing coin switches and do them at the wrong moment.
If your audience think you've switched the coin then your doing something wrong.

My switch routine involves a lighter, a pre-bent coin and a normal duplicate coin. I usually get a spectator to warm the coin in their hands and wave a lighter above the top of their hands. I grab the coin and then I do a muscle pass and afterwhich I hand them back the coin.

Most spectators are impressed with that alone and will examine the coin in more detail, which gives me more than enough time to steal the bent coin from my pocket. After a short while, I take back the coin from the spectator and do a bobo switch. The switch is covered as I say, 'Has anyone got the lighter?'. I then feel around for the lighter and remove it from my pocket, simultaneously ditching the coin.

I hand the spectator the lighter and ask the spec to ignite the flame. I then wave the coin over the flame and proceed with a visual bend 'Ta da!'.

All this happens in one smooth action and the dirty work is invisible to the audience, i.e. doesn't exist. The worst thing that I had some spectators think is that the coin is a 'special coin' and usually that's when they say, 'can I keep the coin' and that's when I say yes which really amazes them because they don't expect me magicians to give away their 'special coins'!

I guess the reason some spectators think 'trick coin' is because I am using my own coin, but the trick coin thing occurs whether I'm using a switch or a bender.

On occasions I use the QB2 just to change the routine up a little and throw off repeat viewers, but the handling isn't as clean as a switch. Sometimes I feel like I'm over proving things when using a bender.

Anyway I think the QB2 is better than the CV2 and I own both.
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Couldn't agree more with bonesy. I will go further and say something that will make me unpopular. On WPR Craig says "anyone that says the coin doesn't need to be signed doesn't know what they are talking about". WRONG Oh the arrogance of youth. I'm not sure Craig was even born when I started doing coin bends. Anyone that thinks the coin needs to be signed doesn't know what they are doing. There I said it.

My switched coin version looks like this. Spec holds out their hand with the coin I pick the coin up from their hand and push it up to my fingertips while telling them to watch it closely. I ask the spectator to roll up my sleeves for me while not letting the coin out of their sight. The coin then visibly bends. It then drops into their waiting hand and my hands are cleanly shown empty and my sleeves are rolled up. I originally did a double switch version where I made a small nick in the edge of my pre-bent coin and took some brasso and made a light patch on the coin. I then took an identical coin with the same date and made the same nick and same light patch. I would then borrow the coin, switch it for my dupe then hand it back and say "before we start check the date, in fact study it and remember any distinguishing marks that make this coin unique".

While they are studying the coin and noting my little nick and light patch I have all the time in the world to ditch their coin and set up for the second switch. From this point the routine continued as per my original description. I scrapped the extra switch it simply wasn't needed, the clean handling, the fact that I ended clean with empty hands and sleeves rolled up and the fact that in their mind the coin never ever left their sight (it does for a fraction of a second as you lift it off their hand but its a fraction of a second followed by "don't let this coin leave your sight, not even for a second". This is reinforced throughout the routine and even if logic tells them that it had to be a switch it couldn't be because "it never left my sight, not even for a second". Lets also not forget that with the visual bend they actually watch the coin bend.

The only time I have ever been accused of using a switch is when using a signed coin because as bonesy said, the bender version isn't as clean. I use the bender version when the borrowed coin is not even a close match for my coin. Two things you should never under-estimate, the intelligence of your spectators, and their stupidity. Generally it is their intelligence that will work for you, and more often than not their stupidity is what works against you. Structure your routine and handling to use the spectators intelligence to lead them to the conclusion you need them to make. When you simply assume that they are intelligent enought to arrive at that conclusion on their own their stupidity will bite you on the bum.

Genuine spectators explanation of signed coin bend, you transferred the mark onto your thumb and finger, then somehow swapped the coin and finally squeezed the coin between your thumb and finger to get it on the other coin. I then pointed out that I had no ink on my fingers. His response was priceless "I don't know how you got the ink off your fingers, that part I can't figure out and so it's really impressive but I'm right about the rest".

Bottom line is that a signature is an easy way to rule out a switch but proper routining and good technique are the best way to rule out the switch (and this is just as necessary when using a signature). Magic isn't just about sleights and methods it's also about understanding the spectators, the effect as you want the spectator to perceive and how to manipulate both the spectator and structure of the effect (including any weaknesses you need to overcome) to ensure their perception is the one you intended to create.

Mark
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There are many ways to perform the bent coin. If what you do works, that's a great testimony that no one can disclaim. I do QB2 just like John Sheets and it kills. The signed coin, can't get better. Going to the pocket is never, ever seen or an issue and this after 1000's of performances. As I said, boils down to personal preference. Only magicians create problems. I've been performing a long time and I never think spectators are stupid, however; they are not as smart as we think. If you give them a reason to go exploring, look out. I remember working a trade show performing the linking rings which I normally don't do. I had about 500 people at the booth when a heckler wanted to see the rings. I obliged him, he saw nothing, and he became the fool. When performing, don't think, be natural and nothing will be seen.

Best
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Quote:
On 2013-02-22 13:26, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
Genuine spectators explanation of signed coin bend, you transferred the mark onto your thumb and finger, then somehow swapped the coin and finally squeezed the coin between your thumb and finger to get it on the other coin. I then pointed out that I had no ink on my fingers. His response was priceless "I don't know how you got the ink off your fingers, that part I can't figure out and so it's really impressive but I'm right about the rest".



lol. Some people will go to great trouble to connect the dots in their mind.
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Quote:
On 2013-02-22 04:32, PWRIS wrote:
First let me state I do not own or have seen QB in action (except on the video trailer) It would appear that with QB you take out your sharpie and have them sign the coin, you then place the sharpie back into your pocket only seconds later to take it out again, this to me seems a little suspect Smile with Coinvexed the objects (Sharpie & Coins) are in full view until the "Magic" is done.

The second strong point for Coinvexed is that the "bending" takes place in the hands of the spectator both physiologicly and psycologicly (they feel the coin move 9/10 and with the smallest amount of "spectator managment" they feel it bend ! ) this to me is far stronger than having the coin bend in my hand.

As I stated in my earlier post I use a Zodiac theme, first I "divine" thier sign and then have them draw the sign on the second coin. The "power" of thier Z sign then bends the first coin.

As to minimal extra props with QB you have the coins and the sharpie ( or two ;-) ) and with Coinvexed you have the coins and the sharpie.

Please note that these are of course only my opinions based on using CV2 for several years now and as they say each to their own.

Best Paul


Just to be clear, with the QB you not take the Sharpie out twice. At least in my routining the sharpie is used once and taken back, then held by performer...then pocketed for good. All movements are justified.

#2... The in hand coin bend is equally possible with QB and equally effective.
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Pocket Managment say for a guy in jeans?
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Quote:
On 2013-02-24 15:56, paisa23 wrote:
Pocket Managment say for a guy in jeans?


Some change & gimmick rear or front left hand pocket, Sharpie in RH left or front pocket. Total space used = very little.
Room for wallet, pack of cards if required and possibly a small marsupial if needed (avoid kangaroos).
bonesly
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The CV2 takes up minimal pocket space. However, prop management with the QB2 is slightly better since only one prop is actually gimmicked.
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Not used cv but as benders go the QB2 is hard to beat. Coin signed, pen put away, empty hands, short sleeves, coin bends, job done.
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PWRIS
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Quote:
On 2013-02-24 11:17, saysold1 wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-22 04:32, PWRIS wrote:
First let me state I do not own or have seen QB in action (except on the video trailer) It would appear that with QB you take out your sharpie and have them sign the coin, you then place the sharpie back into your pocket only seconds later to take it out again, this to me seems a little suspect Smile with Coinvexed the objects (Sharpie & Coins) are in full view until the "Magic" is done.

The second strong point for Coinvexed is that the "bending" takes place in the hands of the spectator both physiologicly and psycologicly (they feel the coin move 9/10 and with the smallest amount of "spectator managment" they feel it bend ! ) this to me is far stronger than having the coin bend in my hand.

As I stated in my earlier post I use a Zodiac theme, first I "divine" thier sign and then have them draw the sign on the second coin. The "power" of thier Z sign then bends the first coin.

As to minimal extra props with QB you have the coins and the sharpie ( or two ;-) ) and with Coinvexed you have the coins and the sharpie.

Please note that these are of course only my opinions based on using CV2 for several years now and as they say each to their own.

Best Paul


Just to be clear, with the QB you not take the Sharpie out twice. At least in my routining the sharpie is used once and taken back, then held by performer...then pocketed for good. All movements are justified.

#2... The in hand coin bend is equally possible with QB and equally effective.


If you have worked out a method to do this it sounds very good. As I stated, I can only go by what I have seen in the official video and of course the Sharpie has to be exc..... With CV2 all items are in play until you have done what you need to do Smile i.e no extra moves.

#2... I think this would not be a problem more than a routining issue.

Best Paul
Paul W. Randall
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Mark_Chandaue
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The problem with a video is that it can't misdirect. In the real world there is ample misdirection to switch the pen for the gimmick. Once they hand back the pen it becomes a dead object and their focus is on the coin not the pen. I ask them to blow on the coin and make sure the ink is dry while I do the switch.
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