The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Coinvexed - Third Generation (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9~10~11 [Next]
lunatik
View Profile
Inner circle
2753 Posts

Profile of lunatik
I do the exact same thing Mark, I ask them to blow on it to make sure it's dry and in that split second, I'm gtg! Also, the QB3 is priced at an unheard of $350!!!!! It's mentioned over in the Tricks and Effects section, might be worth a look for those who've always wanted a Quantum Bender, but couldn't afford the $500-$600 at the time and want to try an alternative method. And the Energy Benders are awesome for restaurant workers!

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......tart=810
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
pegasus
View Profile
Inner circle
United Kingdom
8405 Posts

Profile of pegasus
Thanks for the info lunatik. I've started a new thread reference QB3 on this forum in order to keep this thread on topic.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=218&0
bevbevvybev
View Profile
Inner circle
UK
2586 Posts

Profile of bevbevvybev
I bend coins quite often. I wrote a book about it.
magicbyfish
View Profile
New user
22 Posts

Profile of magicbyfish
Cv3?????????
oooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ,, its a darker black !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it fits both ends !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES MY FRIENDS ,THATS IT ! oh yeah theres a dvd with some nice routines in it

but of course cv2 is not being made now, so make of that what you will

comes under the heading of big fecking whoopee flipping dooppeee !
(tho I guess at least wms are trying to bring out new things for conventions which is soemthing)

anyway I think ill go find a wheelchair and wait for the call......
paisa23
View Profile
Inner circle
7294 Posts

Profile of paisa23
Still interested in CV3 I'm sorry but QB is Way too expensive for me although it is a pretty sweet and amazing tool that gets the job done. Again those that have seen my page know that I'm not doing this professionally right now, but I have in the past. QB2, CV 1-2-3, Pre work and all other methods all (IN MY OPINION) look the same to the spectator. As in it shouldn't look like anything happen except with you mind. So I came to the conclusion that I don't want to do the Pre work version anymore just for impromptu purposes, I would like to make it a little Easier for me the magician so I'm curious about CV 3. Solely for performing purposes and routining but I think that probably the highest I would justify this genre of effect should cost. Now don't get me wrong as for the forever shockingly sold out QB2 it's an amazing method. And I understand that some would want to protect their invention and limit others using it cause were magicians and sometimes want things to ourselves. By all means I agree but if the outcome is still the same using the above mentioned methods then that lessens the protection needed of the tool. ALL OF THIS IS IN MY HONEST OPINION! THAT IS ALL...

But I am more concerned with what the guys from Blackpool have to say about this being there and seeing it. So let's hear more reviews both pos/neg comparisons to CV 2 and so on....
MR Effecto
View Profile
Inner circle
2471 Posts

Profile of MR Effecto
Quote:
On 2013-02-25 14:31, magicbyfish wrote:
Cv3?????????
oooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ,, its a darker black !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it fits both ends !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES MY FRIENDS ,THATS IT ! oh yeah theres a dvd with some nice routines in it

but of course cv2 is not being made now, so make of that what you will

comes under the heading of big fecking whoopee flipping dooppeee !
(tho I guess at least wms are trying to bring out new things for conventions which is soemthing)

anyway I think ill go find a wheelchair and wait for the call......



Why say anything at all.

I have CV2 and will be getting CV3 for sure.
Blindside785
View Profile
Inner circle
Olympia, WA
4292 Posts

Profile of Blindside785
Screw it, I'm just gonna get CV3. I know QB3 is coming out. But in the spectators mind, it works out in the end just the same.
kissdadookie
View Profile
Inner circle
4086 Posts

Profile of kissdadookie
Quote:
On 2013-02-25 16:19, Blindside785 wrote:
Screw it, I'm just gonna get CV3. I know QB3 is coming out. But in the spectators mind, it works out in the end just the same.


Yup, as does pre-b's regardless of what Craig says (presentation plays a more important role in selling it than the method used, I've seen plenty of times when a signed bend is questioned by specs to being a sw***h as well as pre-b's being a sw***h, always due to the fault of the presentation rather than the method) Smile
lunatik
View Profile
Inner circle
2753 Posts

Profile of lunatik
Exactly, ease of use, effeciency, superior design is what you're paying for. A manual typewriter produces the same document as computer, but which one is easier to type with and make adjustments? Hence the QB will always be the Rolls Royce of coin benders everytime!
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
kissdadookie
View Profile
Inner circle
4086 Posts

Profile of kissdadookie
Quote:
On 2013-02-25 17:24, lunatik wrote:
Exactly, ease of use, effeciency, superior design is what you're paying for. A manual typewriter produces the same document as computer, but which one is easier to type with and make adjustments? Hence the QB will always be the Rolls Royce of coin benders everytime!


Lol. This would be a good analogy if the problem wasn't that these are essentially different methods to an effect where the method is completely irrelevant whilst the presentation makes all the difference. Only the magician will ever be giddy knowing what he/she is using. So much money for the privilege is easily questionable for some and hilarious for others Smile To each his/her own I guess.
lunatik
View Profile
Inner circle
2753 Posts

Profile of lunatik
My thoughts are that if a utility device makes it easier to perform the effect, I will pay the premium for that luxury.
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
kissdadookie
View Profile
Inner circle
4086 Posts

Profile of kissdadookie
Quote:
On 2013-02-25 18:37, lunatik wrote:
My thoughts are that if a utility device makes it easier to perform the effect, I will pay the premium for that luxury.


If you want simplicity, old school pre-b sw***h is the way to go. It's the window dressing in the presentation that sells the effect. The actual bent coin is essentially the end product of the demonstration but what you're really trying to sell here is the demonstration itself. Mentalists mostl understand this whilst magicians look at it as just a magic trick and focus way too much on the actual bent coin and how to bend it.

Like I've mentioned somewhere, I've seen both signed coin bends and non-signed coin bends result in similar responses from the audience which was that they assume a switch was done, each and every time this is due to the poor presentation and the poor selling of the plot.

Uri Gellar was a master at selling the premise whilst his methods were rudimentary even back in those days, yet it's far harder to convince people that Gellar was not real more than anything else.

As for you calling QB a utility device, it's actually not. It's just one method to a variety of methods available that would do the job just as well but the QB does give the user the satisfaction of being so sneaky but at the end of the day, it's just a method that really isn't worse than or better than many different methods for the same effect. A lot of people keep coming back to "hey, it needs to be signed to really sell it!" Well, do you see metal benders running around going "forks really have to be signed or else the effect isn't as good!" ?
lunatik
View Profile
Inner circle
2753 Posts

Profile of lunatik
Most magicians would prefer their coins to be marked so as to negate the spectator backtracking in their mind how it happened. The quicker you discredit a method, the better. there is no 'sneaky' feeling as you put it, it's the fact that it makes the 'work' happen easier for me. like I mentioned earlier, manual typewriter or computer. I'd prefer to use a computer these days than work harder to get the same product. I'd rather use a QB than to bobo switch it or a CV that is less streamlined. Like you mentioned earlier, to each his own. I'd rather work smarter than harder, but that's my opinion.
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
kissdadookie
View Profile
Inner circle
4086 Posts

Profile of kissdadookie
Quote:
On 2013-02-25 19:55, lunatik wrote:
Most magicians would prefer their coins to be marked so as to negate the spectator backtracking in their mind how it happened. The quicker you discredit a method, the better. there is no 'sneaky' feeling as you put it, it's the fact that it makes the 'work' happen easier for me. like I mentioned earlier, manual typewriter or computer. I'd prefer to use a computer these days than work harder to get the same product. I'd rather use a QB than to bobo switch it or a CV that is less streamlined. Like you mentioned earlier, to each his own. I'd rather work smarter than harder, but that's my opinion.


See, you're already off to the wrong approach to coin bends and falling into the magician thinking trap. All you have to do to negate any thought that there is a switch involved is to get the spectator to confirm that he/she felt something. You can use many different ploys to get him/her to confirm or you can use the myriad of ploys to give the impression that the spectator has confirmed feeling something. At the moment he/she confirms feeling something, you need to monetize on that moment and milk it a little. The only memory your audience will be left with is that moment and their imaginations will run wild. All that is left is the reveal of the bent coin to confirm that the moment truly did happen.

So you're actually not working smarter and instead working harder and less effective. Like I said, for coin bends, the method to achieve it isn't really relevant, it's all on selling the plot. The bent coin left at the end is only their to confirm that the premise you were selling actually occurred. The coin is inconsequential, what you're selling is the premise of you being able to use psychokinesis yourself or able to get your spec to channel psychokinesis.

This is the reason why there's such a huge difference between magician thinking and mentalist thinking. Magicians tend to forget that the moment is usually much stronger than the end outcome of the effect whilst mentalists understand that the end results is only an affirmation of the premise and moment they are trying to sell.

End of the day, you're presentation and sell of the premise discredits any backtracking or guessing at solutions by your audience. If they end up thinking about it like a puzzle, it's entirely the fault of the performer not having a good presentation and framing for the effect. Any kind of metal bending is a demonstration of psychokinesis, you're selling the idea that psychokinesis rather than selling the idea that you've bent a object. End of the day the impression you are aiming for here is not that you can bend silverware or coins but that you can manipulate objects with your mind alone. That is the point of metal bending.

But hey, this is just my view/suggestions/advice. To each his/her own as they say Smile
lunatik
View Profile
Inner circle
2753 Posts

Profile of lunatik
You can and should definitely 'aim' for the best outcome, but don't discredit your spectators, they're as dumb as some mentalists or magicians think. I personally use Skin for presentation and it has served me well as I know how to milk it. If one is old school and only use billets and prebent coins, that's perfectly fine, I'm sure they get mileage. But if one uses a Mindpad or a Coinvexed or QB so they can concentrate more on the presentation than the method, more power to him. That's the path a lot of us have chosen and there's nothing wrong with it if we choose to pay the premium to do so.
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
kissdadookie
View Profile
Inner circle
4086 Posts

Profile of kissdadookie
Quote:
On 2013-02-25 20:19, lunatik wrote:
You can and should definitely 'aim' for the best outcome, but don't discredit your spectators, they're as dumb as some mentalists or magicians think. I personally use Skin for presentation and it has served me well as I know how to milk it. If one is old school and only use billets and prebent coins, that's perfectly fine, I'm sure they get mileage. But if one uses a Mindpad or a Coinvexed or QB so they can concentrate more on the presentation than the method, more power to him. That's the path a lot of us have chosen and there's nothing wrong with it if we choose to pay the premium to do so.


Not treating the audience as dummies at all. It's just after years of playing with coin bends and then putting in a lot of work with Luke Jermay's Hot Ring routine, I've learned why something like the bent coin is so strong and how to sell it so that it's as strong of an effect as possible. You should pick up Building Blocks and read the Hot Ring section, Skin basically just lifted that entire routine and used a bent coin instead but the Skin video did a horrible job at teaching you how to manage the audience to always get the result you want without fail (though truthfully, Building Blocks doesn't explain this but I've mixed in some hypnosis ploys and came up with basically a no fail success rate on getting them to feel and acknowledge all the suggestions you are feeding them).

As for your point about concentrating on the method rather than the presentation, that's a silly argument. Bad execution and lack of practice is bad execution and lack of practice. This also extends to the QB. Heck, from a method point of view, there's a LOT less to mess up or get hung up on with the pre-b method than there is with any of the live bend methods. I mean seriously, if you can't execute a f***e p*t or a f***e t**e or a f***e tr*****r, you have much bigger things to be concerned about than the best method for a coin bend. There is essentially no concern about worrying about handling, if you can't do something as if it was second nature, you should really not be performing it.
lunatik
View Profile
Inner circle
2753 Posts

Profile of lunatik
I'll look into picking up Building Blocks, I'm sure there are some great things to pick up. On the other point, I was saying presentation could be more easily focused on if the method is easier and less concentration on it is needed.
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
NeilS
View Profile
Inner circle
2453 Posts

Profile of NeilS
A little while ago I had a coin bender but it took so much effort and exertion I got rid of it. As I am currently considering getting a new coin bender, for those who use Coinvexed 2/3, is there still a fair bit of exertion necessary or does the gimmick make things much easier? Or if there are any other recommendations, I'd be interested.

Thanks
Steven Conner
View Profile
Inner circle
2480 Posts

Profile of Steven Conner
Quote:
On 2013-02-25 16:53, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-25 16:19, Blindside785 wrote:
Screw it, I'm just gonna get CV3. I know QB3 is coming out. But in the spectators mind, it works out in the end just the same.


Yup, as does pre-b's regardless of what Craig says (presentation plays a more important role in selling it than the method used, I've seen plenty of times when a signed bend is questioned by specs to being a sw***h as well as pre-b's being a sw***h, always due to the fault of the presentation rather than the method) Smile


A signed bend being sw***h is rather funny. Perhaps another trick ought to be done. That would have to be the worse presentation ever.
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
kissdadookie
View Profile
Inner circle
4086 Posts

Profile of kissdadookie
Quote:
On 2013-02-27 09:45, Steven Conner wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-25 16:53, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-25 16:19, Blindside785 wrote:
Screw it, I'm just gonna get CV3. I know QB3 is coming out. But in the spectators mind, it works out in the end just the same.


Yup, as does pre-b's regardless of what Craig says (presentation plays a more important role in selling it than the method used, I've seen plenty of times when a signed bend is questioned by specs to being a sw***h as well as pre-b's being a sw***h, always due to the fault of the presentation rather than the method) Smile


A signed bend being sw***h is rather funny. Perhaps another trick ought to be done. That would have to be the worse presentation ever.


Not at all. The reason spectator's many times will conclude that a sw***h was used to do the signed coin bend is due to the presentation focussing on the coin itself rather than on the premise of pk. When your focus is on the actual bend or the actual object, what you end up doing is creating a challenge situation for some of your audience. You end up with a situation that ends up being a question rather than an experience. The question here is that you have an object which is in one state one moment and then revealed in another state the next. It becomes a puzzle in which they will naturally try to figure out solutions for. There is no end to a lay person's speculations thus in magic, being as clean and invisible as possible is something that is greatly desired because many magical effects are essentially puzzle-like in nature. There's always this question of "how did he/she do that?" In mentalism, you have a lot more leeway because of the nature of mentalism. Mysticism and superstition has been around for a long long time. It's far easier to get people to believe in hypnosis for instance than it is for them to believe in actual magic. Due to the nature of bending metal, using the premise of pk is actually highly believable but again, you have to focus on the premise of pk rather than on the object or the outcome of the object. It's much more important to get your audience caught up in the moment, spark their imagination for that moment of pk, with the bent object being nothing more than a reminder that the moment actually occurred.

Thus again, I urge people to pick up Building Blocks and read through the Hot Ring section. You will see that in that routine, nothing actually ever changes to the object and the entire thing stands or falls on how you sell the various moments. In essence, that is a routine which takes place ENTIRELY within the imagination of your audience. What I did with it years ago (roughly 8 years or so I would say) was that I used a pre-b coin in place of the borrowed ring in the routine so that the spec can have a nice souvenir and also to give me a better kicker ending (but I've also done it with pretty much any small borrowed object, if it's a small borrowed object, I don't even touch it myself, it's completely hands off).

Again, you can perform coin bends "magician" style which is perfectly fine, you will still have a nice effect, but it's so much stronger when you approach the effect by focussing on the premise of pk rather than focussing on the object and the outcome of the object.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Coinvexed - Third Generation (6 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9~10~11 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.32 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL