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bdekolta
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presentation could be more easily focused on if the method is easier and less concentration on it is needed.


If you have to concentrate on your method then it isn't ready to be shown to the public. You either have your methods mastered or not.
kissdadookie
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On 2013-02-27 12:12, bdekolta wrote:
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presentation could be more easily focused on if the method is easier and less concentration on it is needed.


If you have to concentrate on your method then it isn't ready to be shown to the public. You either have your methods mastered or not.


Completely agree with this ESPECIALLY when the method for a pre-b is a simple f***e p*t/t*k*/tr****er. If you can not perform such ridiculously easy, fundamental/basic sleights, you shouldn't be concerned about what method to use for a coin bend. Do not start running before you've learned how to walk, do not start walking if you have not learned how to stand.
lunatik
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I've been running for years. Back to the original analogy, manual type writer or computer? I'll stick with my computer. And please don't say that this doesn't apply because it does! Just like a lot of the electronic effects out there. Show me your argument with those as well. I think we see a pattern of not liking to take hold of advancements. And that's ok if you want to perform that way
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kissdadookie
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On 2013-02-27 12:57, lunatik wrote:
I've been running for years. Back to the original analogy, manual type writer or computer? I'll stick with my computer. And please don't say that this doesn't apply because it does! Just like a lot of the electronic effects out there. Show me your argument with those as well. I think we see a pattern of not liking to take hold of advancements. And that's ok if you want to perform that way


Some methods for some effects improve the actual effect. However, for coin bends, this is simply a question of preference as to which method to use. One is honestly really not any better than the other since the effect again, is very dependent on you selling the moment and the premise of PK, the actual object being manipulated should be irrelevant if performed properly for the greatest impact.

Lastly, your comparison of the coin bend methods available to the different ways one can write a book actually contradicts your argument for QB being superior. Why? Because the different methods of writing a book is really about efficiency for getting the work done. If you want to discus the most EFFICIENT method for a coin bend, it's going to be a pre-b, hands down. That's the most direct method for a coin bend routine. It requires the least props. It is the most direct. The entire routine is focused on presentation. There's barely any handling involved (seriously, your argument about the QB allowing the performer to focus more on presentation rather than handling doesn't make any sense because executing a f**se p*t/t*k*/t*****er is actually much easier and streamlined that the entire ordeal of having a coin signed, ringing in the tool, doing the move, etc.). Again, THE COIN BEING SIGNED OR NOT IS IRRELEVANT. The object is irrelevant. The outcome of the object is really irrelevant. What is relevant is selling and milking the moment of PK and that is ENTIRELY dependent on you feeding that idea to your audience and making sure that your audience goes with it and starts getting really creative in their own imaginations (and again, all you need to achieve this is for you to get your spec to confirm that they have felt something strange and milk that moment a bit or at least leave the impression that the spec confirms he/she has felt something strange, your audience is not going to be able to backtrack to a method because at that point, NOBODY can dispute that the spec felt something and that spec feeling something is all that matters, the reveal is nothing more than a confirmation of the moment happening).

I totally understand why you feel so strongly about the QB or something like the CV is superior, because from all the back and forth discussions about coin bends with you throughout the years (I recall it being years at this point), your interpretation of coin bends has always been treating it as an isolated effect in which the most important thing is that bent coin at the end thus you give a lot of importance to the method for achieving the bend, however, most mentalists will tell you otherwise and that really shows you the difference between mentalism and magic in broad terms. I mean if the method was so important, Uri Gellar would not have gotten away with most of the things he has gotten away with as he used some of the most basic and rudimentary methods in the history of mentalism, but as we can all see, he was seen to be the real thing, why, because he understood that selling the moment and the premise was far more important than the end effect. If you look at the way Yigal Miseka performs, he's also similar in the way he treats effects, he milks the moments for all it's worth even when nothing is happening and THAT is what elevates the effects, not the actual outcomes of the effects themselves (the outcomes of these effects are again, just confirmations of the moment happening, the moment itself however, that's mostly psychological build up in the minds of the audience).

For further reference, watch Yigal Miseka's Loops DVDs. A lot of people yawned watching those videos because they were looking for fancy new methods or techniques, but IMHO, the true value of those videos was to learn and analyze Yigal's performances because there was so much subtlety in his performances and every time he really sells the magic is when basically nothing really happens, yet it's in these moments where the entire routine really shines.
Mark_Chandaue
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Some really great posts, presentation and method are both important and as methods go pre b's allow for a far cleaner presentation. Any way you slice it benders require cover for the bend. Now with QB2 that cover is short but it's there. With a pre b there are countless clean switches including the TKO 2. But the best way to sell the effect is for the spectator to experience the moment the coin bends. Show an unbent coin then a while later show a bent one and the spectator will naturally assume it's not the same coin. If on the other hand the spectator experiences the coin bending, whether through a visual bend or through feeling it bend in their hand then a switch isn't a consideration, it was straight and I watched it bend before my very eyes.

I love my QB but with the QB, and as far as I know this is also true of the CV too, the coin is out of the spectators view for far longer than I would like. The longer the coin is out of the spectators view the more chance of them backtracking and thinking you did something. For me as benders go the QB is my favourite because the deed is done very quickly with most coins (although some of the euro coins take some bending. The advantage of the pre b is that the switch I use it is done as I lift the coin off the spectators hand and takes less than a fraction of a second. The moment I lift the coin from the spectators palm the method is over and I'm free to concentrate solely on method.
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lunatik
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Dookie, you are misguided. A pre-bend's effeciency is COMPLETELY thrown out the window when they noticed that the California coin they gave you is now Oregon! Nothing wrong with you using Buiding Blocks as I'm using some of Skins techniques. I think all of your arguments on this specific subject belong in Penny IMO. There are magicians and mentalists reading this thread and neither side is likely to change their performances
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kissdadookie
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On 2013-02-27 14:38, lunatik wrote:
Dookie, you are misguided. A pre-bend's effeciency is COMPLETELY thrown out the window when they noticed that the California coin they gave you is now Oregon! Nothing wrong with you using Buiding Blocks as I'm using some of Skins techniques. I think all of your arguments on this specific subject belong in Penny IMO. There are magicians and mentalists reading this thread and neither side is likely to change their performances


What part of the coin/object being irrelevant did you not understand? Whoever came up with the notion that the only coins one should bend are quarters? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?!? Misguided? It's not that I'm misguided, it's that you really are showing your complete lack of thought into this subject matter. You essentially have demonstrated your complete lack of understanding what makes the effect strong and treated it as nothing more than a simple magic trick. That's all fine and dandy but you're completely short changing the true potential effectiveness of coin bends.

Hell, I've mostly used nickels or pennies as that's what I usually have prepared. Even if all I have were quarters, the simple matter of asking your specs to each take out some change and dump them on to a table or what not as you pick a coin up for the demonstration is perfectly fine. The way I have my coins set up, I am able to actually leave the coin in the spectator's open hands with the coin in full view for a few beats giving the illusion that I've never went near the coin.

THERE ARE MANY WAYS to approach a coin bend but the KEY is that the coin nor the bend is really all that important. It's the PREMISE of PK that you are selling and milking. The end results is just a little token reminder of the moments they have experienced.

So please explain how I am misguided? It appears to me and I'm sure many others that I'm the one here that actually placed a lot of thought and experimentation into both the methods to use as well as the presentation to a coin bend routine. It really sounds like all you did was went out to buy some commercially available method and then just went by the books with what the instructions told you. It has been at least 2 years since this thread in which I've had this same coin bend discussion with you and it appears that you have yet to put much thought into coin bend routines since then.

I mean seriously, the fact that you actually posed the question "what if they have a different state quarter from yours?!?" is very telling at how little thought you've put into this subject matter. Especially when this is such a simple non-issue to overcome. It's also telling how you've brought up that you've learned how to present coin bends from Skin when Skin is actually pretty terrible at explaining why what is being taught is important (thus the reason why I keep referencing Hot Ring in Building Blocks, which is essentially what Skin is completely based on to the T, but in Building Blocks it's fully explained why each element is important since the entire Hot Ring routine explained in it wasn't really the highlight but instead, the routine was explained in order to explain the importance of the principles which Jermay was trying to teach the readers). Like I've mentioned, everything you have been saying and using as your points for discussion here points to a very simple fact that you've basically purchased commercial effects and methods and just used them verbatim without placing much thought into them. It's fine and dandy, it does get the job done, but using that as your basis of argument about how CV and QB is superior is just pure nonsense because all they are essentially are different methods to achieve a coin bend but they are neither superior or inferior to the various other methods to achieve a coin bend. If anything, in regards to EFFICIENCY, they are a lot less efficient and a lot less streamlined than a pre-b.
lunatik
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Dookie, you're still clueless. Just because you write your usual 10 page dissertation on your stance, does no way invalidate anyone else performance of the effect, is that tooooooooo hard for you to understand? Apparently it is. There are many pro's that completely disagree with you and prove it by how they perform a coin bend. Is that ok with you??? Apparently not. Get off your high horse thinking that you have the most pimp coin bend routine in the entire world, YOU DON'T!! The things I pulled off of Skin have worked perfectly for me, please tell my specs that have screamed, cursed and kept their bent coin all these years that it was a flop. So now you use a nickel or penny to cover your shortcomings....good job of making an excuse once again.

And many years past, all you do is blather and blather and blather on about how great your coin bend routine is. Who the H*ll cares how great you think it is? NO ONE CARES! In fact, hardly anyone cares because they're not responding to your posts, just like they didn't years ago..Don't you get a hint? No one cares about your routine LOL. What you CANNOT comprehend is that anyone performing a coin bend routine wants a method in which to do so. Some want to do a switch and some want to use a device to facilitate the bend. NEITHER IS WRONG!! KAPEEEESH!?!? If I want to use 2 pairs of pliers up my sleeves, so be it. If I want use a Superman, so be it. If I want to use CV, so be it. If I want to use a QB, so be it!!!!!! Slam people all you want on their routine and you just continue to look like the backside of a donkey. Most don't want to waste their time telling you because your set in your ways. By spectator reactions, is your routine good? I'm sure it is. By spectator reactions, is my routine good? Yes it it. By spectator reactions, are most working pro's getting good reactions that have no foundation based on Jermay's Hot Ring? Yes they do. Sooo, that leads us to come to a conclusion that there are many routines out there that get many great reactions and memories for our spectators. Kapeesh?

So please blather on with another 20 page dissertation on how your routine is the schiznit and how jermay is the final authority on all coin bending, and how we're all clueless people that look for the latest and greatest. blah blah blah....This is why I missed you for a couple of years lol
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kissdadookie
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Yawn. Lunatik, multiple people now on this thread and others have already pointed out how the method really is irrelevant for the coin bend. What do you do? Run around fooling magicians all the time thus always on the look out for the greatest method known to mankind? It's quite obvious that you simply have no clue as to what I and others are trying to tell you but ignorance is bliss isn't it? To each his/her own. Knowledgeable people whom understands where the power of coin bend and metal bending routines are in will understand, you can just continue on with your ignorance to stop for moment to think about what others are trying to show you for your own benefit.

Heck, you don't even know what the Hot Ring is for goodness sakes. You think that it's just another routine, like I've been trying to explain numerous times to you already, that routine was used for no other purpose than to teach what suggestions are, how powerful they are, and how to use them. That's the only reason the Hot Ring is in there. You may get good reactions but that is your major flaw, you stop at just the good reactions. You have not bothered to think about why those reactions occur, what the psychology is from the spectator's POV. Like I said, you've done nothing more here than buy a commercial effect and follow the instructions without thinking about any of it. That works fine and dandy but it puts you in absolutely no position to tell people how the method is so important here. All you know is your one learned off a video routine and arm and a leg priced method. Until you've actually bothered to put in the work far and beyond just following some pre-made instructions, your comments essentially hold absolutely no weight.

Lastly, it's absolutely asinine that you are now trying to tell me that I'm slamming a method. I have never done so on this thread. I've made it extremely clear that the method really is irrelevant for the coin bend, you however have been going on and on about how superior CV and QB is. Seriously, do you not bother to think before you speak? You're the one slamming things left and right and now all of a sudden your finger pointing at me? Are you seriously this deluded?

As a note on your mention of the Superman. You silly monkey, you do realize that method is a perfectly fine method but it's the routine taught that is complete garbage, I hope that you do realize that. A routine and method is two different things, but it appears that you can't even comprehend that very simple fact. As for your idiotic comment about how people are just not bothering to tell me off because they don't want to waste time, have you not noticed how basically nobody else has bothered to come on here and comment about your posts in this thread yet there's a few whom have already posted and have essentially supported my point that the method is essentially irrelevant for the coin bend and it's the moment and premise of PK that you are trying to sell here, not a silly parlor trick of "hey look, see the coin is bent now!" Yeah, you might get good reactions, but still doesn't change the fact that you are clueless as to why you are getting those reactions. See, the ultimate point to be made here is that you constantly go on and on about how great QB is but you always manage to fail at explain how it provides a better ROUTINE.
tomsk192
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Ditto.

My coin bend cost me 10p. It works really well. I will sell you the secret for £1,000,000 of gold bullion.
lunatik
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What part of GREAT reactions do you not understand? You are completely delusional that Hot Ring is the best thing since sliced bread!!!!! It isn't!!! Get off Jermay's nugz! You've never seen my performance or routine nor the GREAT REACTIONS that I get. Pull your head out of your hind quarters and comprehend what I'm saying, THERE ARE OTHER ROUTINES THAT ARE NOT BASED ON HOT RING AND THEY ARE WORKING PERFECTLY FOR MANY PROFESSIONALS! They don't use the premise of PK and they get AWESOME REACTIONS!! Kapeeeesh? I'm sure when you perform, women are ripping their clothes off, men are banging their heads on the pavement in disbelief by what they saw..*rolls eyes* The premise behind Hot Ring IS NOT THE FINAL SAY IN COIN BENDING, I hate to break that to you, but someone has to tell you. Please address the inadequacy behind you using pennies and nickels, please do make an excuse as to why you won't use the spec's only coin on him, his california coin which he insists that you use. Please enlighten us oh great one!

And as for a person who 'supported' your view, hardly, re-read it lol. And if I was allowed to post the PM's that I've received from others, you'd see that you're opinion isn't worth that much. They've said that it might be if it were not on a bending device thread, but on coin bending in general down on Inner Thoughts. That's the place for your thoughts on this, not here. Go down there and we'll continue or shut up.

P.S. How about we ask Jermay to get his opinion on this and ask him if he thinks the premise of his Hot Ring is the be all, end all of routines? You ok with that? Or will you finally concede that there are OTHER routines that do not use any sort of PK psychology in their routines and that they are great routines?
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On 2013-02-27 14:01, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
Some really great posts, presentation and method are both important and as methods go pre b's allow for a far cleaner presentation. Any way you slice it benders require cover for the bend. Now with QB2 that cover is short but it's there. With a pre b there are countless clean switches including the TKO 2. But the best way to sell the effect is for the spectator to experience the moment the coin bends. Show an unbent coin then a while later show a bent one and the spectator will naturally assume it's not the same coin. If on the other hand the spectator experiences the coin bending, whether through a visual bend or through feeling it bend in their hand then a switch isn't a consideration, it was straight and I watched it bend before my very eyes.

I love my QB but with the QB, and as far as I know this is also true of the CV too, the coin is out of the spectators view for far longer than I would like. The longer the coin is out of the spectators view the more chance of them backtracking and thinking you did something. For me as benders go the QB is my favourite because the deed is done very quickly with most coins (although some of the euro coins take some bending. The advantage of the pre b is that the switch I use it is done as I lift the coin off the spectators hand and takes less than a fraction of a second. The moment I lift the coin from the spectators palm the method is over and I'm free to concentrate solely on method.


With QB the coin is never out of the spectator's view because the spectator is typically averting their eyes for a moment - so that moment does not exit even for a split second in the mond of the spectator imo. Unless of course you are burning your own hands. Out of sight - out of mind. QB allows things to happen very quickly.
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kissdadookie
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On 2013-02-27 18:42, lunatik wrote:
What part of GREAT reactions do you not understand? You are completely delusional that Hot Ring is the best thing since sliced bread!!!!! It isn't!!! Get off Jermay's nugz! You've never seen my performance or routine nor the GREAT REACTIONS that I get. Pull your head out of your hind quarters and comprehend what I'm saying, THERE ARE OTHER ROUTINES THAT ARE NOT BASED ON HOT RING AND THEY ARE WORKING PERFECTLY FOR MANY PROFESSIONALS! They don't use the premise of PK and they get AWESOME REACTIONS!! Kapeeeesh? I'm sure when you perform, women are ripping their clothes off, men are banging their heads on the pavement in disbelief by what they saw..*rolls eyes* The premise behind Hot Ring IS NOT THE FINAL SAY IN COIN BENDING, I hate to break that to you, but someone has to tell you. Please address the inadequacy behind you using pennies and nickels, please do make an excuse as to why you won't use the spec's only coin on him, his california coin which he insists that you use. Please enlighten us oh great one!

And as for a person who 'supported' your view, hardly, re-read it lol. And if I was allowed to post the PM's that I've received from others, you'd see that you're opinion isn't worth that much. They've said that it might be if it were not on a bending device thread, but on coin bending in general down on Inner Thoughts. That's the place for your thoughts on this, not here. Go down there and we'll continue or shut up.

P.S. How about we ask Jermay to get his opinion on this and ask him if he thinks the premise of his Hot Ring is the be all, end all of routines? You ok with that? Or will you finally concede that there are OTHER routines that do not use any sort of PK psychology in their routines and that they are great routines?


End of the day, demonstrate how the QB is superior to other methods in relation to a coin bend routine. Please explain how your typewriter etc. analogy which comes down to efficiency actually proves your point that QB improves efficiency for coin bend routines in general. That's all you have to do, thus far all you have been doing is insult anybody that tries to tell you that it's nothing more than a method and really isn't better or worse than other methods. I mean for goodness sakes, you even stated this yourself. How pathetic are you to find the need to come on a forum arguing to prove that your view is the right view and on top of that, even contradict yourself?

Bottom line, you have been going on and on for years how QB is superior yet you have NEVER been able to quantify that in any meaningful way. Yes, my posts are long but it's obvious that I'm trying to point out the more important things about a coin bend in general. That helps others wishing to learn a coin bend routine think about them with more thought as opposed to your childish "I paid a lot of money for this thing so that makes it a Royale Royce of methods thus that must mean it's the best and will provide the best routine" argument. Simple concept here yet you have completely missed the plot here and continue to sit there like a child arguing for the sake of "being right."

There is this very simple concept of cause and correlation. All you have done for years is assume that the correlation is the cause. In other words, you have based your argument on the following:

I paid an arm and a leg for QB. I have received great reactions from it. Thus, due to that, this must be the best coin bend ever.

That is a correlation, it's not a cause. You obviously can't grasp this simple concept.

I bring up Hot Ring a lot because that section in Building Blocks teaches you a lot of fundamentals about understanding your audience, how to manage your audience, how to maximize the experience for the audience. These are fundamental concepts people should learn and understand. I don't continue to mention it because I think it's the best routine. I mention it because it teaches the performer a lot of fundamentals. This is in hopes that we don't end up with a bunch of people like yourself whom just buys things and if it works just assume that that is all there is to a routine or a performance. There's fundamentals in performing. That's why books like Derren Brown's second book is such a classic. That's who Ortiz's Strong Magic is such a classic. That's why Carneycopia is such a highly regarded book. Things you obviously simply don't understand at all.

It's ridiculous how you are going "let's ask Jermay!" You daft little boy, you don't even need to go that far, just pick up some mentalism books and actually read them, they all mention the key thing that the strongest mentalism you can perform is when you can successfully sell the audience on the premise of the demonstration. You obviously don't understand this due to the fact that you most likely have never bothered to read any of them.
Mark_Chandaue
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On 2013-02-27 17:56, lunatik wrote:
There are many pro's that completely disagree with you and prove it by how they perform a coin bend.

There is a subtle difference between how someone "performs a coin bend" and how someone "bends a coin" and I think that is the point that kissdadookie is making. However, the bit that prompted me to reply was this notion that a pro or the commonly used term "working pro" automatically knows best. I see this notion commonly propogated on the Café and my experience as a former "working pro" myself is that this is not the case. The most knowledgable and skilled magicians I have met in magic have commonly been hobbyests. Some of the most respected names in magic such as Marlo and Jennings were hobbiests.

The most important knowledge and skill required to make it as a working pro is busness accumen and marketing ablity. As long as you have those you can be highly successful as a working pro with fairly limited skills as a magician. When I first turned pro and started meeting other pro's on the circuit one of the first things that shocked me was how many I met that had no real passion for magic and saw it purely as a business. One of the most successful guys on the table hopping circuit in London back then new a total of around a dozen effects, mostly using things like the Svengali deck. He was neither a terrible performer nor a great one and he didn't even know who Dai Vernon was yet he was very successful because he knew how to market himself.

This was a big shock to me and in many ways a kind of wake up call. I had spent years and years mastering my craft, I was extremely well read, practiced for an average of 8 hours a day, could do knuckle busting sleight of hand, was well respected by my peers, was in with the magical mafia (as a certain group of well known magicians were known). I was teaching John Carey, having sessions with Kevin Reay and swapping tricks with Michael Vincent, Jerry Sadowitz and countless others of that ilk and Michael Ammar was interested in publishing my routines. It seemed that I was at the top of my game and destined for great things. Yet here was a guy with little more than a Svengali deck earning twice as much as me and he was closer to the norm, it was I who was the exception.

Valuable lesson learned, being a good magician will not make you a successful pro, understanding the art of magic is far less imprortant than understanding the business of magic (or themagic of business) lesson 2, a reputation amongst your fellow magicians means nothing to a booker. In fact you professionalism as a contractor means far more to most bookers than your skill as a magician, providing you are not lousy most bookers care more about whether you will show up on time, look clean and smart, behave appropriately and fit in with the image of the establishment than how many varients of a side steal or three fly you can perform.

As a hobbiest my focus had been on perfecting each move, making every movement justified, creating poetry with cards and coins. Suddenly as a working pro my focus moved to doing things by the simplest method, filling my time slot exactly, no more no less, being able to reset quickly, managing my pocket space, fitting the set to the venue and dare I say it squeezing the maximum entertainment out of the minimum effort (by minimum effort don't mistake this for meaning I didn't work hard, the reality is that you are putting tons of time and energy into the business side adding 400 hours to perfect a sleight is simply not cost effective a good pro will learn to be able to do a little well. Even my cabaret act was focussed far more on entertainment value than magical quality, it was reallly more comedy than magic and again working the clubs it was surprising how many people had built their acts from the supreme magic catalogue (and even more annoyingly from watchng other performers and copying the bits that worked). I suspect a lot of pro's have seen less original pro's in their audience armed with a note book

There are many very skilled and immensly knowledgable pro's and we can all name a very long list but they arethe exeption, not the norm, the vast majority of pro's are unknown to us and a huge amount of them have no real interest in magic at "clocking off time" it's simply their job and I was shocked to find out how many pro's see it like that. Incidentally when I had kids and so had to come off the road to do a "proper job" I landed a job in the games industry at Sony Computer Entertainment Europe where I was just as surprised to learn I was the only "hard core gamer" in the whole development studio.

So being a pro is not an accurate measure of somebodies knowledge. Those pro's who's reputations reach our fraternity are great because they are the cream that has risen to the top and it has done so because of their passion for our art, not simply because they are a pro. Even those that we see as the cream are ften not the biggest earners obviously with exceptions like Copperfield et al.

Those that love, and dare I say it, truly understand the art we call magic will find very little in kissadookies posts that can be easily dismissed. The method you use to bend the coin is far less important than the performance you use to sell the effect. Whether it is a pre b, a cv, a superman or a QB2 is far less important than the emotion you generate in the spectators and the experience as seen through their eyes.

Rant over Smile

Mark
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RNK
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Very well put Mark!

RNK
tomsk192
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Again, ditto.
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On 2013-02-27 18:53, saysold1 wrote:

With QB the coin is never out of the spectator's view because the spectator is typically averting their eyes for a moment - so that moment does not exit even for a split second in the mond of the spectator imo. Unless of course you are burning your own hands. Out of sight - out of mind. QB allows things to happen very quickly.

That's not strictly true, when you take the coin back it leaves their sight, it is only briefly and it is covered with adequate misdirection and backed up by the signature so it is not a weakness as such but it is there and it is that moment when the coin is out of the spectators sight that renders the signature necessary to a large degree. My pre b version I literally lift the coin off of their palm and up to their eye level and tell them not to let it leave their sight and my hands can genuinely and cleanly be seen to be empty apart from one coin, it can be done with them burning my hands from the moment the coin comes out of their pocket and that is why the lack of a signature is not even remotely important.

I am not convinced that I could say the same using my QB without a signature (not that I would have a reason to be holding a pen without the signature). My pre b routine looks more direct and in my opinion more clean. For me the QB gives me the freedom to use any coin, the downsides to my pre b routine is that I can only do it if they have a coin that's a close enough match, if not then I will hand them a sharpie and go with the QB.

Mark
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lunatik
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Exactly! You're hit the nail on the head! Dookie came to argue about routining, most others on THIS thread came to talk about the bender. Take that Convo elsewhere like I said before. This thread is about a bender, NOT a routine. Notwithstanding, you still haven't proved a thing about your pet routine, it's just your opinion as I have mine. Mark is right in that we need to connect with our spectator. There is nothing wrong with your routine, my routine, Streblers, Darren's, Blaine's, etc...we all connect with our spectators during our set in different manners. A coin bend is for me almost always the last thing I perform. Do you know why? It's because I want to establish a connection with the spectator first and foremost. I'm not arguing that a great routine is needed to connect with your audience, where have I alluded to such a ridiculous thing? This thread is to talk about a bender, I'll start a thread in Inner Thoughts so that we can voice our thoughts and opinions on routining there. Please no more hijacking this thread as we both have done. My apologies to the others!
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Quote:
On 2013-02-27 20:16, lunatik wrote:
Mark is right in that we need to connect with our spectator.

I actually thought that was the point kissathingamy (no disrespect intended, it was just too late at night to go back and check the spelling) was making. I hasten to add when I said that I didn't think there was much in his post that people who understand the art could dismiss that was before the tone and content of those posts had gone downhill..

Mark
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lunatik
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Yeah, I never ever would disagree that one needs to come with their spectators. IMO, one would just be a move monkey and your spectator reactions wouldn't be as good as they could be. Just my thoughts!
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