|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] | ||||||||||
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-20 21:32, mastermindreader wrote: Well since the Salem Trials were in the Seventeenth Century and they didn't start using the Tarot for divination until the Eighteenth Century. It is highly unlikely that such a scenario took place.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-20 20:56, daffydoug wrote: Yes, you are quite wrong Playing Card Manufacturing was a meticulous and painstaking operation. Controlled by guilds and regulated by the government as cards were highly taxed. Counterfeiting or printing cards without a license was punishable by death. Here is a short article on some of the processes used at various times http://historicgames.com/gamemakers/cardmaking.html
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
The Old West?
Card trick and bullet catch.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
|
|||||||||
landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Tommy, where did you find the Police Gazette article?
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
|||||||||
Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Thank you for posting the link to White Knuckle Cards, Bob. A lot of great information there!
|
|||||||||
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-21 01:58, Payne wrote: Picky picky. But card divination goes back before that and Tarot variants did exist at the time, although they were primarily used for games. Beyond that, though, it was a joke! |
|||||||||
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Why is it people assume just because people lived in earlier times they were automatically stupid?
They probably had more skills as they had less gimicks.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-21 11:16, mastermindreader wrote: Do you have any references to cartomancy being used before the eighteenth century? I've been looking for reliable information on this subject. I found reference to an Oracle type of deck used in Elizabethan England. But no primary documentable evidence of playing cards being used in such a fashion much before 1750. So if you could steer me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated. Quote:
I did realize that. M y reply didn't come out as tongue in cheek as I had hoped.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Sorry, Payne, I don't know of any primary sources. But I have round a reference to cartomancy "meanings" published in a book dating as early as 1720. Unless the authors invented cartomancy themselves, which is unlikely, it would seem that they were writing of something that was already known at the time.
Quote:
Dr. Flamstead’s and Mr. Patridge’s New Fortune-Book containing . . . Their new-invented method of knowing one’s fortune by a pack of cards appears to be the oldest book with instructions on fortune-telling-with-cards in the English language. The first edition seems to be from 1729—well before Etteilla wrote his 1770 book on “cartonomancie” and contains a “lot” style method of divination in which the card chosen leads to a verse based on your choice from a list of pre-set questions. However we know from the 1730 play Jack the Gyant-Killer that multi-card spreads with meanings for each card were already current in England. http://marygreer.wordpress.com/2010/01/1......english/ It might be interesting to research the 1730 play referred to in the above quote. And, from the same source: Quote:
Two 17th century works of art attest to the use of playing cards in witchcraft. “Depart pour le Sabat” by David Teniers the Younger (1610-1690) shows playing cards as part of a magical circle (see picture at top and to the right.) http://marygreer.wordpress.com/category/....../page/2/ Good thoughts, Bob |
|||||||||
Woland Special user 680 Posts |
If you are interested in Tarot history, there is an amusing and instructive blog by Michael Hurst called "pre-gebelin" at blogspot. He is very opinionated and often uses vulgar expressions, but his grasp of the documented history is I think sound, and based generally on Professor Michael Dummett's work.
|
|||||||||
Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
"They were raising the devil at the other end of the bar...had him about six feet off the floor when suddenly he up and challenged me to a game of ten card tarot, pentacles wild..." --Firesign Theater
|
|||||||||
Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Which reminds me that Tarot decks are used in playing card games in Europe. Sometimes called "Tarock," I think.
|
|||||||||
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-21 14:06, Woland wrote: The tarot was originally used for card games. |
|||||||||
ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2889 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-20 20:33, mastermindreader wrote: Y'know, you are right. The salons and gentlemen's clubs of the 1800's probably had the finest playing cards money could buy. Those cards probably rivaled anything we might have today. However, I'm pretty certain those cards didn't make their way into the bars and saloons of the Old West of the 1800s that we're talking about here.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
|
|||||||||
Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Thanks, Bob. I had meant to say "still."
|
|||||||||
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-21 12:48, Woland wrote: Thanks for the link. I am fortunate to own a copy of Dummett's The Game of Tarot. Which, as far as I know, is the definative work on the subject.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-21 12:26, mastermindreader wrote: Thanks for this info. It gives me some new avenues to persue.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Along with Gertrude Moakley's work, I think Dummett's work is definitive.
|
|||||||||
magicjack1977 Loyal user Louisville, KY 213 Posts |
No offense to the OP, and I haven't really read through this thread yet, but IIRC, many of the sleights we still use today were being used during the old west and employed as devices to assist gamblers in cheating at cards. Am I right? Erdnase wrote Expert at the Card Table during an era where the aging verneer of the old west was still hanging over eastern towns like St. Louis, Virginia City, Savannah, and Branson, among others.
|
|||||||||
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-22 08:47, magicjack1977 wrote: Exactly. And I think we can assume that Erdnase was working card tables for quite a long time before writing his book, before the veneer had aged as much. Also, it is clear that he learned a good deal from cheats who preceded him. |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Doing Card Magic In The Old West (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |