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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Clinical performance balancing act (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Pomdini
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I know that many of you who perform hypnosis as entertainment also practice as hypnotherapists, and quite successfully too.

I would like to know how people feel about balancing the two disciplines so here are a few questions...

Do they compliment each other?
Does doing a stage show help to market hypnotherapy?
Has anyone used a stage show as a publicity stunt for a therapeutic practice?
Does a stage hypnotist damage the credibility of his clinical approach with his comedy skits?

Is it disrespectful?

Do you advertise both together on your website etc.. or use a pseudonym?
How do you get around any issues relating to regulatory bodies who might exclude members that perform?

If you perform magic and have a clinical hypnotherapy practice how does this compare?

Looking forward to your posts.

Pomdini
“If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place.”-Milton Erickson
quicknotist
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Quote:
Do they compliment each other?

Yes. I think they do. I describe them as two different uses of the same tool.

Quote:
Does doing a stage show help to market hypnotherapy?
Has anyone used a stage show as a publicity stunt for a therapeutic practice?

Yes and I have NEVER done a show where someone hasn't enquired about hypnotherapy.

Quote:
Does a stage hypnotist damage the credibility of his clinical approach with his comedy skits?

Not at all. Like I said: Two different uses of the same tool.

Quote:
Is it disrespectful?

No. I don't think you'll find anyone on this forum who thinks so, but there are probably plenty on other more hypnotherapy focused forums who do.

Quote:
Do you advertise both together on your website etc.. or use a pseudonym?

I know of people who deliberately use two different names, but I comfortably advertise both together.

Quote:
How do you get around any issues relating to regulatory bodies who might exclude members that perform?

Simple: I don't belong to any that would be so restrictive.
Dannydoyle
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I think performers should avoid therapy and vice versa.

That is a general statement and not a judgment of any sort.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
quicknotist
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You know Danny, I think in general terms, I'd be inclined to agree with you.
Just because this model has worked for me, that doesn't mean I'd necessarily recommend it to, or that it would work for anyone else.

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On 2013-02-22 14:44, Dannydoyle wrote:
I think performers should avoid therapy and vice versa.

That is a general statement and not a judgment of any sort.
Dannydoyle
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Yes as I said no judgment on my part. Everyone has a model that works for them.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Pomdini
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Quote:
On 2013-02-22 14:44, Dannydoyle wrote:
I think performers should avoid therapy and vice versa.

That is a general statement and not a judgment of any sort.


I agree.

Thank you Quicknotist for saying exactly what I hoped someone would say.
I think this is probably an issue that boils down to the individual. If the hat fits etc..

I would like to know if you feel the same way about magic, mentalism and hypnotherapy?
“If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place.”-Milton Erickson
quicknotist
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It's more important to me that those who practice hypnotherapy are good at it, regardless of what else they might decide to do.

Hypnotherapy clients rarely shop around to find a good hypnotist, they judge the whole (largely unregulated) field of hypnotherapy based on the one person they see.

Then they go around saying things like "hypnotherapy doesn't work" or "I can't be hypnotized" rather than "Maybe I should try a different practitioner."

Imagine if we judged all food by the skills of just one chef.


Quote:
On 2013-02-22 16:16, Pomdini wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-02-22 14:44, Dannydoyle wrote:
I think performers should avoid therapy and vice versa.

That is a general statement and not a judgment of any sort.


I agree.

Thank you Quicknotist for saying exactly what I hoped someone would say.
I think this is probably an issue that boils down to the individual. If the hat fits etc..

I would like to know if you feel the same way about magic, mentalism and hypnotherapy?
Dannydoyle
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Worse yet one untrained wanna be chef who thinks he has all he needs to know from a weekend course.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2013-02-22 14:44, Dannydoyle wrote:
I think performers should avoid therapy and vice versa.

That is a general statement and not a judgment of any sort.


I would respectfully disagree.
From reading this forum I think most performers NEED therapy!

Bada bing!
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On 2013-02-22 14:44, Dannydoyle wrote:
I think performers should avoid therapy and vice versa.

That is a general statement and not a judgment of any sort.

In general you are probably right. I feel that a completely different personality type is needed to be a stage performer and a healer. You are unlikely to excel at both. Personally I am lacking the nurturing gene, so I will stick to the stage.

But I don't feel that stage work as such is detrimental to doing good therapeutic work, or being taken seriously.
Mindpro
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While I respect and enjoy the views and thoughts of quicknotist and dmkraig, I disagree and have experienced different perceptions in my experience and business.

First let's not confuse trained hypnotherapist and trained entertainment hypnotists with magician's and hypnotists. Both trained hypnotherapists and entertainment hypnotists are skilled in hypnosis, magicians, while some can also be, most are not. Hypnosis is not and has nothing to do with magic.

As a performer and booker, there is a difference. In the hypnosis industry there is a difference. Hypnotherapists think they are the real practicioners of hypnosis and believe hypnosis performers tarnish or degrade the industry, even make a mockery of it.

In my experience most (and I mean the vast majority) hypnotherapists are terrible if they try entertainment hypnosis. The reason for this is simple, they are not entertainers. They do not know how to present hypnosis in an entertaining manner, they usually are too studious and technical, they do not have any experience in controlling a committee of subjects as they are used to more one on one applications, and they also have no experience in also working an audience at the same time.

A hypnotherapist typically focuses on a client one on one. Using approaches, methods and techniques most suitable for that person and their needs. A performance hypnotist is factoring applications for many at once. In a stage show with 15, 40, or 60 people there is much more going on than in a private session. An entertainer hypnotist has safety issues, on stage subject management, audience management, control concerns, music, sound cues, must be able to deal with any of hundreds of possible responses and situations, oh, and must hold and keep the audience, progress and build the progression of the performance, incorporate all the elements to a true performance (comedy, drama, suspense, improv, amazement, intrigue, etc.), have timing, and work on two levels simultaneously the onstage subjects and the audience. They also need to know when they (the hypnotist) is featured and should be in the fore, and when they should be in the back and let the subjects perform and be the stars and focal point.

All of these things are absolutely foreign to 99.9% of all hypnotherapists.

In my opinion and experience, hypnotherapists attempt to do performance hypnosis for the wrong reasons. They think it will help boost their practice or supplement their income. Ultimately it doesn't. Since most fail miserably at performance hypnosis it threatens to damage their image and credibility and often puts a bad taste of hypnosis in general in the mouths of the audience and participants.

So many of the calls we get for a stage hypnotist in my offices are from clients that love performance hypnosis and previously, in an attempt to save a few dollars, booked a local hypnotherapist. They were so disappointed. They all say "it was nothing like we've seem on t.v., in Las Vegas, at our college or school, or at the local fair." Of course not they previously saw and entertainer, who they hired wasn't. Hypnosis itself is only a small portion, only one element, in a hypnosis performance.

On the other hand, I believe just the opposite when it comes to stage or performance hypnosis. I get emails, calls and letters all the time from local hypnotherapists after I have performed in their city stating "thank you for the show you did in our area. My phone has been ringing off the hook since your performance". They state that I exposed the audience (several hundred to sever thousand) to hypnosis and the possibility of change through hypnosis, and they then contacted them. If done correctly a good performance hypnosis will educate and perpetuate interest and understanding in hypnosis and hypnotherapy.

This is not reciprocated by the standard hypnotherapist. More typical are them saying things like "stage hypnotists (or hypnosis entertainers) are not really hypnotists..."

It's funny, at conventions and conferences, these hypnotherapists all seems supportive of each other, but on their own the perspective always seems to change to discredit the performer.

So I feel hypnotherapists should not attempt to try to be entertainers, because they do not know how to entertain. However I also believe that all performance hypnotists should be skilled, trained, educated and certified in clinical hypnosis, but they too should stick to performing as one on one work seems boring and unfulfilling to most. (I know we have some exceptions here, but again this is a forum for entertainers, specifically magicians.
Pomdini
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Very droll dmk!

I know chefs who have been working for years (10+) and don't know their brunoise from their rissoles!

Thanks for that mindpro. I don't think anyone would disagree that most hypnotherapists should avoid performing but that is not quite what I was getting at.

Let us assume that the individual is both a talented and experienced with a love of performing and a history in magic leading to a psychological illusion show that includes hypnotic demonstrations (overt or not) AND a well trained, insured, registered etc.. etc.. clinical hypnotherapist. This person is building a reputable practice in his local and would still like to entertain.

Would a Google search from a potential hypnotherapy client (who possibly has PTSD or severe depression etc..) find a person who claims to be able to heal them and also perform think "It's ok if the therapy doesn't cure me perhaps I can get him to show me a trick? that might cheer me up a bit.' or would some be completely put off? I feel in a small town any number putt off is too many to be good business. Would the extra income from a show make it worthwhile?

From these posts it seems the most likely and logical path is to develop a hypnotherapy branch from an entertainment origin, but I feel this would only work if performing strictly hypnosis. I don't think it would work even from a psychological illusion show.. or could it?
“If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place.”-Milton Erickson
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