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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » 3 Shell Game by the magician -Magic, Con or both? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2013-04-05 22:42, shellgame-al wrote:
Glen Bishop; I Do enjoy my props and I am glad you enjoy yours.


Glenn the name in my case is spelled with 2 n's. From what I heard Glen is also a name however also glen is a clearing in a forest.

I also noticed you avoided my question. I asked...

Quote:
On 2013-04-05 22:21, bishthemagish wrote:
So anyone that uses a sponge pea like Frank Garcia is not taking the shellgame serious or they would not be using the sponge balls (I use a single sponge ball as a pea by the way) with the shells?


I am glad you enjoy your props however I think that in fairness you should apoligize for saying that I do not take the shellgame seriously - just because my choice is a sponge ball for a pea. When I started using the shells I started with a Vernet set (still a good set the vernet set) and they had hard rubber black pea's. These peas could be used on the bar - without a close up mat.

I used to have my pea's in a small pea can - instead of changing the peas to water I changed them to sugar - "Sweet Pea's" as an ending. In those days I also vanished the pea and had it appear in the pea can that the spectator was holding as an ending.

As the years went by I got and used several different sets of shells and used several different kinds of peas. When I started to use a sponge pea it was a small rabbit sponge from the abbotts sponge rabbits trick. Later it became just a small green sponge cut from sponge rubber - then later a sponge ball.

I feel that props are important - however the routine and the performance are just as important. And the performance is the reason we have a routine and props - Since I have been doing the shells since before 1975 and my audiences have "loved" my performance I don't consider the older props and my sponge pea a problem - even if they are not your choice.

From my point of view "magic" is not in the props anyway - it is in the performer.

I hope this helps.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
shellgame-al
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Sorry, for the typing error in Glenn. My opinions on Frank Garcia are; of course I think he took the shell game seriously. But he was from a different time. If he were alive today, who knows what he would use. That would be his choice.

But most professionals upgrade their tools. I will not apologize for my opinion. I am sorry you were offended, but it is still my opinion.

I like the shell game and have had a lot of fun with my audience over the years. Again in my opinion many magicians use too many clues in the shell game. You may not agree. That is you right.

Hope this is the end of this and again, I am glad you are happy with your choices.

Best too you.
Manufacture of 3 Shell Game Sets & 3 Disk Monte Sets
3shells.com and magicswindles.com
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2013-04-07 17:03, shellgame-al wrote:
But most professionals upgrade their tools. I will not apologize for my opinion. I am sorry you were offended, but it is still my opinion.

Not where I come from - after the act was set - none of the professionals I knew in magic as I was growing up in magic - shall we say - up-graded their tools. Once the act was set and they were getting booked and making money with what they were doing. The worked on booking the act to make more money.

They did not up-grade props for something different. When I was younger I thought that was a little strange. However if something "works" why go for something that may not - and most likely would not work for them? As I got older I understood why.

In my opinion often the up-grade is nothing more than a marketing or advertising ploy to sell something to someone that just may have an interest - for something that they really don't need in the first place.

For guys and gals still looking for "the way" fine. People putting an act together and magic is a hobby and they have the time - fine.

So what you are still saying is - that because I use a sponge ball as a pea - I don't take the shell game seriously?

Good luck with that!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
shellgame-al
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Tools do not have to be different, just better. People used candle light but a light bulb is better.

Your last question; yes, I stand by my opinion on everything I posted.

But this is getting way off track on the subject of this thread. This is my last reply to you on this subject. I'm sure you will have to have the last word.
That’s OK.

Best too you.
Manufacture of 3 Shell Game Sets & 3 Disk Monte Sets
3shells.com and magicswindles.com
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2013-04-08 17:23, shellgame-al wrote:
Tools do not have to be different, just better. People used candle light but a light bulb is better.


Oh, tools have to be Just Better? What makes your shell products better than Others? I have a set of the School for scoundrels copper shells. And I used them and a sponge ball pea when I performed in the close up gallery of the Magic Castle.

I found the set to be one of the best sets (for me) that I have used. However words like "best and Better" to me are only opinions. I consider them "best for me" however sice they do not have a bottom ridge on them and I do not use a pk ring - you most likely would consider them shells that only the non-serious magicians might use.

Part of what makes the trick is the ending. I end the shells with my pea in the shot glass ending. Without a good ending I feel that the trick falls flat. I remember performing my shellgame at Houdini's pub when Bill Malone introduced me to ED Marlo. Not only did he like my pea in the shotglass ending I fooled him with it. I also fooled a lot of magicians over the years with my shellgame before I published the routine and it got around.

Besides performing my routine and using the sponge ball pea at my shows at the magic castle _ I also lectured on the shellgame at the magic castle - did several lectures do different magic clubs - plus in the old days the shells and sponge pea helped me win several close up contests at conventions.

I would not want to use a shell set if I could not use the shot glass. I find the shot glass moves to be one of the highlights of the routine. And make the shells even more of a mystery to the spectators. And that is the "key" point. The audience "knows" because it is a legendary street con that there is sleight of hand involved. So "in my opinion" by using a sponge pea and the shot glass moves what "I" do with the shells is go beyond the street con and make it "MAGIC".

The sleight of hand way of doing it vanishes when magic is there and that is part of what the sponge pea does for the trick. It helps to bring it above the sleight of hand street con and into the magic and mystery relm of entertainment.

Legends (in my opinion) like Frank Garcia knew this was the "effect" he was getting with his routine that used a shot glass, a set of shells and a sponge pea. And in my opinion that is why he used it.

And that is my opinion.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
TheAmbitiousCard
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In the eyes of a spectator, the success of the operator comes from:
1. sneaking the pea from one shell to the other by lifting up a shell and covering it with a different shell
2. the hand is quicker than the eye and following the shell became impossible

THAT'S IT!!!

The worst shell game ever is the Jay Nozebleeda Penquin DVD and I hope nobody does that ridiculous routine.
It violates the rules of the game. NEVER should a pea end up in your pocket. That "tips the gaff", as they say.
Basically it tells the audience that the operator can do whatever they want, which ruins the "game".

A spectator should always know that if they follow close enough, they WILL WIN!

I think it's ok for a magician to do the shell game because magicians are considered skillful
and quick with their hands, so there's an overlap between magicians and con artists in that regard.

Turning it into a pure magic trick shouldn't be done, from my perspective but I'm sure I could be convinced
otherwise. But if that's the case, you destroy the con and the desire of a spectator to bet.
Because then, they know they can't win because a magician could just snap their fingers and move the pea.


If you want my opinion, the Phil Cass routine is the most draamatic and fun to watch.
Bob Kohler's routine is the best to learn as a beginner.
Patrick Page has some nice touches on his cost-effective DVD
The "Patterns" booklet has wonderful ideas
The SFS DVDs are great for adding in extras and new ideas
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate,
Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder.
shellgame-al
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Yes, Phil Cass acts the routine out so well, you could picture him as a good movie actor.
Manufacture of 3 Shell Game Sets & 3 Disk Monte Sets
3shells.com and magicswindles.com
Stperformer
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Quote:
On 2013-04-11 01:36, Frank Starsini wrote:

Basically it tells the audience that the operator can do whatever they want, which ruins the "game"......

A spectator should always know that if they follow close enough, they WILL WIN!......


Turning it into a pure magic trick shouldn't be done, from my perspective but I'm sure I could be convinced
otherwise. But if that's the case, you destroy the con and the desire of a spectator to bet.
Because then, they know they can't win because a magician could just snap their fingers and move the pea.



Spot on Frank. I agree.

IMHO, once the audience/spectator realizes that no matter which shell they chose, you're going to make it end up in another shell....the game is over.
Of course that's assuming the presentation is audience vs magicman/con artist.

And like you and Al I luv Phil's psychological twists he adds to it all. Brilliant.
Phil used to do this busking on the streets and you can see it's influence on his style.
silverking
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Quote:
On 2013-04-11 11:14, bishthemagish wrote:
I find it interesting that it was said that I do not take the shells seriously because I use a sponge ball for a pea. (laughing).

I think folks all believe you don't take the shells seriously becuase of irrelevant, nonsensical, rambling posts like this one.

The concept that only Frank Garcia and you know how to present the shells is seriously mired in utter foolishness and terribly sad self-delusion.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » 3 Shell Game by the magician -Magic, Con or both? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes)
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