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BatsMagic
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Well, Doctor, in that case he is infringing upon the mosque's property, so he would not do that.

He knows enough not to even try it.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2013-03-12 20:04, Dr Spektor wrote:
Quote:
I've realized I was wrong about many things, and I've had the balls to admit that, and to change my mind when presented with the facts.



AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA....

Facts? You've ignored them all! And now you run away like little boy....

Why don't you just admit you were wrong here? (Oh and everywhere else you've been posting lately)....

FACT! There are concrete laws about IP and Copyright you have said you do not agree with, are stupid, and should be abolished

FACT! You think it is morally right to take another person's ideas and work such as a book or song and can sell it off anyway you want without any consequences

FACT! You believe the above are morally correct! Despite the fact I suppose no one asked you to define what morals mean to you - which I think may be the issue...

FACT! You cannot back down from a statement even when wrong... you almost did a few times then contradicted yourself!

FACT! You still never apologized for the "cancer joke" in the other BB thread!

FACT! You avoid my posts because I'm right!!!

FACT! You have not one person who agrees with your stance. There were some posters who discussed some angles of free IP and so on, but no where near your concept of basic piracy is OK once you get a hold of something.

CONJECTURE: You may have some serious issues you need help with. However, with your stance, no one will want to as you are basically saying you would !@#$ a magician over for his IP if you felt like it.

SOLUTION: Phantom Zone...but only after page 20


While, only a few of those "facts" are accurate, and not one of them has any thing to do with backing up the claims of IP. The closest is the fact that there are IP laws. However, there mere existence does not validate the notion of IP, just as the existence drug prohibition laws does not validate the war on drugs, or killing people over plants.

Also, I never made a cancer joke in the other thread, in fact there was no cancer "joke" at all. There was a reference to cancer to point out the offence of another person's comment, neither of which were made by me. I did, however, defend the use of reference to cancer to make a point.

I ignore most of your posts because you have put most of your effort in inconsistent attempts to parody Bizzaro.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
bonesly
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Quote:
On 2013-03-12 19:54, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-03-12 18:07, bonesly wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-03-12 17:23, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-03-12 17:18, bonesly wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-03-12 17:13, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-03-12 16:53, bonesly wrote:
. . .

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Once you have entered an agreement you have assigned all your RIGHTS to copy any material on that CD. So NO based on your agreement you no longer have those rights to copy.

Whether you choose to ignore your agreement is irrelevant and illegal.

And you cannot just ignore the Law that is the only common ground we can base our morals on, otherwise everyone would just go about doing whatever they felt like doing and we would have a dysfunctional society.


If I make an agreement with my wife not to get a tattoo, do I suddenly no longer have a right to get a tattoo?

Rights are not just a fabrication of the law, and neither are morals. Do you honestly believe that the only grounds for morality is the law? Something is only moral, or immoral if the government says so?


No you don't if you have a formal agreement, that's the whole point.

The law is a good common ground for us to work from, it meant to be based on the morals of the majority.

Other than that its just individual opinions.


I guess you don't know the meaning of the word "rights," not "inalienable" for that matter. Look them up, then try again.

Also, do you honestly believe morality is determined by what the majority says?


No actually you do not know the meaning of rights. Do you understand the term agreement?


Well, who can argue with that then.

Rights are inherent and inalienable just claims, titles, or abilities if you will, which stem from ownership, both of one's self and ones property.
Privileges are granted by an other party.

For example, one can grant you the privilege to temporarily use their property, like a car, along with certain restrictions, like you must return it intact, don't eat in it, etc.

If you OWN the car, you have a right to do what ever you wish with, so long as you aren't infringing upon another persons body, rights, or property.

If the transfer of possession, or control of the item in question is temporary, then ownership is retained by the original possessor.
As such, the proper owner has rights over the property, and this they can repossess it if they wish, for example, if conditions and restrictions of the agreement are not kept.

If transfer of possession is permanent then ownership has been transferred to the new party.
As rights are a function of ownership, and they are inalienable (which, if you haven't looked it up, means thay cannot be taken from, or given away by, the possessor) they cannot be partially retained, or selectively transferred.
Similarly, you cannot give up a right without also giving up ownership, which is why your rights don't vanish just because you made an agreement. An agreement is in fact an affirmation of your rights. You are only able to make the agreements because of your rights in your person, and the property you own, which you are making an agreement about.
I can't make an agreement to promise you someone else's property, or body, as I have no just claim to said property or person.

That said, I'm done with this "discussion."

Fight progress all you want, but in the end, you'll just be left behind.
I've realized I was wrong about many things, and I've had the balls to admit that, and to change my mind when presented with the facts. My current views on IP are a direct result of that.


GDW your confusing yourself.

You clearly don't know the difference between physical property and intellectual property, or maybe you don't respect the idea of intellectual property. Either way what you support is illegal.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2013-03-12 20:07, Dr Spektor wrote:
Quote:
I'm sorry, I figured everyone here was intelligent enough to realize that one persons rights end where another begins. I did not think I needed to spell that out.
I can do what ever I want with my body and property SO LONG AS I AM NOT INFRINGING ON ANOTHER'S RIGHTS, PERSON, OR PROPERTY.


So, if you are in a middle eastern country and do a magic trick with your hands while wearing shorts and no t-shirt in a holy mosque, its ok if they arrest you for witchcraft and beat you with sticks, correct? Since your body is in a space where that is outlawed?

BTW, lets take up a collection for a one way airline ticket for GDW to that country and find out!


What the hell are you talking about? Would I have a "right" to be on their property? No, I would only be on their property under the conditions which the property owner sets.
That doesn't make any laws, or punishments established in those laws, valid reactions. They would have every right to have a person, who is doing something they do not like, removed from their property, just as Steve can have anyone removed from the Café for breaking his rules.

Seriously, where are you getting these insane contortions? I've only described fundamental property rights.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2013-03-12 20:40, bonesly wrote:
. . .
GDW your confusing yourself.

You clearly don't know the difference between physical property and intellectual property, or maybe you don't respect the idea of intellectual property. Either way what you support is illegal.


Either information is property, or it isn't. If it's not, then it is not me who is confusing themselves. If it IS property, then it is subject to property rights.

If it something else, then call it something else, but you can't just define something into existence.

Jesus, now I REALLY know how Danny Doyle felt.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2013-03-12 19:58, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
. . .

Excellent, that should bring us nicely onto page 13 very shortly....


Just doing my part.

Seriously though, dang it's hard to stay away from this crap.
I don't care about changing any minds here, and I don't care for a "discussion" which, almost from the start, has been peppered, and then riddled, with a complete lack of respect, mockery, and childish insults and a complete lack of attempts to consider, or comprehend counter arguments. The Café has become little more than an echo chamber long ago.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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On 2013-03-12 20:18, BatsMagic wrote:
Well, Doctor, in that case he is infringing upon the mosque's property, so he would not do that.

He knows enough not to even try it.


YES, thanks you. Someone grasps some basic concepts here.

***edit*** DAGNABBIT! Stop giving me hope for this place!
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
FrenchDrop
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Quote:
On 2013-03-12 15:45, gdw wrote:
It's amazing people continue to bang their heads

Yeah, I can't believe anyone's still bothering with you, either.
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
Dr Spektor
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Quote:
On 2013-03-12 20:53, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-03-12 20:18, BatsMagic wrote:
Well, Doctor, in that case he is infringing upon the mosque's property, so he would not do that.

He knows enough not to even try it.


YES, thanks you. Someone grasps some basic concepts here.

***edit*** DAGNABBIT! Stop giving me hope for this place!


So, GDW owns a home. One day a civil war breaks out and some people come up to GDW and say GET OUT WE TAKIN' DIS PLACE. Is this OK?

GDW owns a website. Someone likes it so much they break into it and lock GDW out, then change all the names of GDW to their name. Is this OK?

GDW while changing on a public beach gets a random shot of him naked by a person with a camera who sends it to a bunch of porno sites. Is this OK?

"March 22, 2011, our beautiful baby girl, Evelyn, was born.
It's a brave new world, get with it, or get out of the way.
Man has evolved, "god" is extinct.
I won't forget you Robert."
Was written by Omar K. Right GDW? This is OK, as I found this sitting shared in cyberspace put out there by someone, so I can do whatever I want with it? This is OK?

IP is like ID - you never did get that connection did you... your ID and all info you share is at the mercy of everyone you shared it with, even with a contract - because really, if you actually believe there is no moral or legal grounds for IP, why should ID matter either? You wanted a internet service, hydro, or whatever - but you don't HAVE to do it - but you gave info, to credit card companies etc. What they do is take info like that for demographic data for marketing as well as psychological development of hooking tools for people... and that is OK? So, that "Privacy Laws" are like "copyright" aren't they - WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? Your data is out there because you decided to share it - so if someone wants to become you, that is the risk you take.

Since you think IP is not like PP, then why is IP not the same as ID? They are just concepts and abstractions. One could consider you a bag of water with some carbon molecules.


You didn't like my bizarro posts? I thought them amazing! No accounting for taste.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
BatsMagic
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I loved your Bizarro posts, Doctor!

Please don't stop!
BatsMagic
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This is a show about nothing. And it's the best show on The Café.

I could have edited my above post, but on to page 13.....
gdw
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Quote:
On 2013-03-12 21:07, Dr Spektor wrote:
. . .


You didn't like my bizarro posts? I thought them amazing! No accounting for taste.


I liked them in concept, but they were so inconsistent when translated. You weren't always speaking properly.

As for the rest, I know I said I'm done, but these look like fun, and they'll only clarify what my views are, rather than continue an argument defending, or attacking them.

Quote:
So, GDW owns a home. One day a civil war breaks out and some people come up to GDW and say GET OUT WE TAKIN' DIS PLACE. Is this OK?"


Why would it be? They would be violating my property, and so I would have a right to defend it, and similarly have insurance/security.

Quote:
GDW owns a website. Someone likes it so much they break into it and lock GDW out, then change all the names of GDW to their name. Is this OK?


Same as above.

Quote:
GDW while changing on a public beach gets a random shot of him naked by a person with a camera who sends it to a bunch of porno sites. Is this OK?


I put it out there, that's my fault, and my responsibility.
If a guy goes out wearing tight jeans which show off his ass, and a low cut v-neck, does he have a case against anyone for looks at his chest, or ass? It might be rude to look, but you can't expect people not to see what you show them.

Also, this happens to celebrities all the time, and those pics are everywhere under today's systems. If I should be attractive enough, or famous enough for that to happen to me? Again, my personal opinions.

Quote:
"March 22, 2011, our beautiful baby girl, Evelyn, was born.
It's a brave new world, get with it, or get out of the way.
Man has evolved, "god" is extinct.
I won't forget you Robert."
Was written by Omar K. Right GDW? This is OK, as I found this sitting shared in cyberspace put out there by someone, so I can do whatever I want with it? This is OK?


Yeah, again, like my junk on the beach, I put it out there.
Though one could argue fraud in that someone else is claiming to have written it (who knows, maybe it describes him and his life as well) but that would be a tort between the person being defrauded, and him.

It's not like anyone's taken my bank and credit card numbers, and those are my responsibility to keep secret. Unless someone is violating my property, like my mail, or computer, or wallet, etc, the only way it's going to get out there is if I make it available. I'm only making it available to people with whom I am making a contract for a service or purchase, etc, and said contract would address any potential violations of that contract, and the "punishments," if you will, for doing so.
If I DO make that information available, or it becomes available through some violation of my property, then I would be able to cancel any and all accounts connected to them, thus minimizing potential losses and damages. Also, as is true now, they would be wise to have some sort of coverage, or insurance against this just in case your money, etc, are used without your permission.


Quote:
IP is like ID - you never did get that connection did you... your ID and all info you share is at the mercy of everyone you shared it with, even with a contract - because really, if you actually believe there is no moral or legal grounds for IP, why should ID matter either? You wanted a internet service, hydro, or whatever - but you don't HAVE to do it - but you gave info, to credit card companies etc. What they do is take info like that for demographic data for marketing as well as psychological development of hooking tools for people... and that is OK? So, that "Privacy Laws" are like "copyright" aren't they - WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? Your data is out there because you decided to share it - so if someone wants to become you, that is the risk you take.


Yup. See above.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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I have no problem doing "Ask the Nut" AMA style if you guys are curious how deep the rabbit hole goes. I just don't want to waste time arguing about it.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
MovieMan
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Hello page 13. Smile
Dr Spektor
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Law is an ideological construct as much as IP agreed upon by people and enforced by physical means... But it's essence is not physical.

You think you own land but in a war, who says its yours anymore sceptical you? You own it as much as you own the software for a computer.... Even without a war you don't pay taxes they take your house... Or if you want to raise wild animals inside and not harm anyone, he law can take your house away... But back to war.... Basically you want to keep our house but it is not yours anymore except that you happen to be in it at the time e entir land was taken over... I believe it is your right to fight but you don't own hat house anymore... Except in your mind

The website.... You think you own it but the people you contract with could just shut it down and you can sue them.... But really it's a collection of electrons and thoughts made into physical visuals etc through tech.... Your website is present online... It's out there.... People can copy it and take it whole and use it...or the web boaters have a clause...like steve as here... Everything you post even on your own site is copyright to them... They can take it all and then what will you do... You can copy it back but they can sue you.... But forget that... They just take your stuff... Why not... You posted it all. You gave them info.

As for he photo... You think that is ok? Morally?

As in terms of ID. - ok you sue the first party who spilled the beans... But the second and following partis who have no contract with you... So now have it... It's ok for them to do anything with your personal info you gave out because you never had a contract with them? Just like the resale of physical or ip items?????
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
gdw
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Quote:
On 2013-03-12 22:01, Dr Spektor wrote:
Law is an ideological construct as much as IP agreed upon by people and enforced by physical means... But it's essence is not physical.

You think you own land but in a war, who says its yours anymore sceptical you? You own it as much as you own the software for a computer.... Even without a war you don't pay taxes they take your house... Or if you want to raise wild animals inside and not harm anyone, he law can take your house away... But back to war.... Basically you want to keep our house but it is not yours anymore except that you happen to be in it at the time e entir land was taken over... I believe it is your right to fight but you don't own hat house anymore... Except in your mind

The website.... You think you own it but the people you contract with could just shut it down and you can sue them.... But really it's a collection of electrons and thoughts made into physical visuals etc through tech.... Your website is present online... It's out there.... People can copy it and take it whole and use it...or the web boaters have a clause...like steve as here... Everything you post even on your own site is copyright to them... They can take it all and then what will you do... You can copy it back but they can sue you.... But forget that... They just take your stuff... Why not... You posted it all. You gave them info.
. . .


I don't wanna argue anymore, let's hug
.
Quote:

As for he photo... You think that is ok? Morally?


Have you ever seen the **** at the checkout? Obviously the law isn't stopping it now. A nude pic really doesn't mean anything.

Quote:
As in terms of ID. - ok you sue the first party who spilled the beans... But the second and following partis who have no contract with you... So now have it... It's ok for them to do anything with your personal info you gave out because you never had a contract with them? Just like the resale of physical or ip items?????


Yeah, but it'll be useless, as I cancelled them, and now have new numbers. Have you never lost a bank card, or credit card?
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
BatsMagic
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Whatever happened to Fay Wray?

Whatever happened to Brian Brushwood?

Lets do the time warp again!

My apologies to "The Rocky Horror Show".
DanHarlan
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Well, good to know you are okay with kicking a stray dog to death, urinating in public, defecating on the street and fornicating with wildlife... all of which do not infringe upon the rights of another... well, actually you should stop kicking the dog before it dies.

Here's my view of IP protection: I have information that I created and "the only way it's going to get out there is if I make it available. I'm only making it available to people with whom I am making a contract for a service or purchase, etc, and said contract would address any potential violations of that contract, and the "punishments," if you will, for doing so. If I DO make that information available, or it becomes available through some violation of my property, then I would be able to [enforce a pre-determined punishment or stop the violators], thus minimizing potential losses and damages."

YOUR WORDS just validated protecting INFORMATION as a form of property (or whatever you want to call it). Checkmate.
--Dan Harlan
Visit My Site @

www.danharlanmagic.com
FrenchDrop
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It's just a jump...to the left.
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
BatsMagic
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I knew some here would get it, FrenchDrop, but I had to give credit where credit was due. Copyrights, you know.
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