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BatsMagic Inner circle New York 1052 Posts |
Fantastic thread!
On to page 17 please! |
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DanHarlan V.I.P. 998 Posts |
Hmmmm, Glenn West... so convenient to give up your rights for money and claim that someone may "feel" harmed by an action. Perhaps you'll want to take a closer look at my proposal: Put a copy of a video on-line and post a link to it.
Is that illegal, immoral, right, wrong? Glenn, if you have no problem with sharing your work, perhaps you should be the one who gives it to me. I'll even agree to whatever contract you want, whether it infringes upon my rights or not. Here's another suggestion for anyone out there who owns "Mobius Switch": Make your own tutorial of it, send it to me, I'll pick the best and award a prize! I'd prefer this to having to sit through 30 minutes of Glenn West explaining how to fold a couple of notes. So, Glenn, any problems with the legality and morality of that suggestion? --Dan Harlan |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2013-03-13 16:17, FrenchDrop wrote: No. That's not how it works. I voluntarily appeared in camera. Basically, you give your permission to "use your likeness" (in my view you allowed yourself to be captured on camera.). I believe, in the eyes f the law, as the video is itself produced, the "copyright" is held by those who produced it. To suggest I hold the rights to the "video" is akin to suggesting Christian Bale holds the rights to Batman Begins. The actual mechanics of the trick, the method/"secret" is not "copyrighted." It can't be actually. The form, or manifestation, of the teaching of the method, in rhis case a video, is "copyrighted." This is, generally, true of all magic tricks. Arguably they can be "patented," which, in the case of a performance, or a technique (as opposed to an apparatus) means you "patent" them as a "pantomime," esentially claiming you hold ownership over that sequence of actions. Considering the number if people usually involved in producing a movie, and the number of people appearing on screen, the "copyrights" are usually held by the movie "studios;" Corporations being people and all that. So, according to the law, I never held any "copyright" to "sell" in the first place. This is why, as the law is written, and interpreted, there is no "copyright" violation in "exposure/tutorial/revealed" videos on YouTube, so long as they are not simply uploads of the original manifestation (video, illustrations, text, etc.) In other words, until there is an actual manifestation of the information, there is no "copyright" to sell, or take advantage of.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2013-03-13 16:24, Don Dasher wrote: What are you talking about? I'm not threatening anyone. I've stated very clearly that I would not do anything. All I'm saying is that I can't speak for Blue Crown, or the government, and what they may or may not do. Simply staying facts, letting Dan know that what he had described would likely be considered illegal under the current laws. My opinions of such laws have no bearing on the reality if what other people, who do agree with, and enforce those laws, will do.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
[quote]On 2013-03-13 16:20, Don Dasher wrote:
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On 2013-03-13 16:06, gdw wrote: Can anyone else explain what the hell Don is talking about here?
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts |
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On 2013-03-13 16:33, BatsMagic wrote: Getting closer to 20. So exciting!
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
I forgot this was about a book test.
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2013-03-13 16:35, DanHarlan wrote: Dan, if I have you a copy of the video, then I could be held accountable under current law. I'm also not looking to burn any bridges with Blue Crown. As far as the "legality" of your alternative suggestion, I'm no lawyer, so this isn't legal advice, but as I understand it, video of someone else teaching the moves is not against the law, I repeat, as far as I can tell (you have to careful with what you say in this regards as you don't want to be accused of "giving legal advice.") As for the morality of it, it could be said to be a "prick" thing to do, but I would argue that, in my opinion, you have every right to do it. To paraphrase what is usually attributed to Voltaire, I may not agree with what you do, but I will defend your right to do it.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts |
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On 2013-03-13 16:56, Zombie Magic wrote: What book test?
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2013-03-13 16:21, saysold1 wrote: I've said it before, but I'll repeat my self for your clarity, it's not about just "giving it away for 'free.'" It's about not being, as Lars Ulricj described his actions "Metallica against their fans." Amanda Palmer summed it up perfectly I think, it's not about "forcing fans to pay for music," it's about figuring our how to "let them pay for music." I released Mobius with Blue Crown because it was something people would pay for, and it was a good deal for me in terms of exposure. I was well aware from the start that people would end up downloading it, and distributing it themselves, and I didn't care, and I knew I wasn't going to do anything to stop them. "Do it Glenn... I will happily line up to download your first free magic shareware release and if it's good I might even PayPal you $5-10!" How do you know I'm not working in this As I've ponted out, there are MANY business model options, not just putting it up and asking for donations, although the can be a very successful model. Alternatively, althoug similar, it is not exactly the same, look at Louis CK and what he did. The magic market is a fascinating one as it is one if the closest things there is to a truly free market, with the exception of the few areas into which IP law creeps. Sometimes we still have to work within systems with which we disagree. Neil Gaiman has similar views as his wife (Palmer) on this type of thing, but (if I recall) he still works periodically within the current publishing constructs wherein publishers still pursue IP claims. He remains one of the most respected authors in the industry. So, to answer your question, I could be working on it
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2013-03-13 17:03, Jamie Ferguson wrote: Hoy?
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Stucky Inner circle I'm Batman! 1355 Posts |
This is the most schizophrenic thread I have seen in some time. Rocky Horror, books tests, copyright law? Someone get Cybil on the phone.
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On 2013-03-13 13:58, Andrew Zuber wrote: They may have started that way but now it's for making money like anything else in big business. Do you really think they give a *** about you or your art? Quote:
I make my LIVING making television shows. That's what I do on a day to day basis. If you think I'm just gonna sit back and go "ah well, times are changing" you're very mistaken. This is how I pay my bills and put food on my table. Television networks and production companies pay me money to make a product for them. You keep talking about resisting change. So, because it's easier to steal a product now than it was 25 years ago, that makes it acceptable? You couldn't be more incorrect. What a ridiculous assumption - I spend months, YEARS of my life on something, hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, go into creating it, you think it's okay to sell one single copy for a few bucks and duplicate it, use it however you please, and not care how it affects me. THAT is stealing. If you don't like that term, come up with something else but what you're doing is taking food off of my table. TV is paid for by commercials and given away for free (more or less). You get paid either way so long as the advertisers are happy. If you worked in the movie business that's a bit different. Thus I say to you: Quote:
No, no, no. I know you're joking, but this social experiment only applies to any work Glenn West has created. I still believe that original expressions should be protected. Glenn West believes that you have the right to do whatever you want with them. Further, even if you agree with copyright law, Glenn West has given us permission. I do not believe it is right to copy and distribute an artist's original expression without permission. In this case, there is no problem on either side of the fence. We have Glenn West's permission to freely share "Mobius Switch." He doesn't even believe we need his permission. Glenn West did not make any specific agreements with anyone who has acquired his work, and even if he did, he says you still have the right to do whatever you want with it. I intend to make him famous. Dan, you know full well that he has made all the money he is gonna make by now with that product so why would he care regardless of who owned what? It's kind of a hollow gesture.
Official Thread Killer
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BatsMagic Inner circle New York 1052 Posts |
In just 7 days, I can make you a man!- Dr Frank N. Furter
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DanHarlan V.I.P. 998 Posts |
To Stucky... Glenn seems to care, if only about Blue Crown's reaction.
Glenn, wait a second, I'm trying to help you and you call me a prick? I'm not taking anything from you or Blue Crown (according to you). I'm within my rights. What harm would I be doing to anyone? If you'd prefer not to be associated with this social experiment, I'll gladly refine your techniques and give away my handling for free to anyone. There are all kinds of options available in the free market. Why does my choice of how to exercise my rights with my property make me a prick? --Dan Harlan |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Actually Stucky, that's not exactly true. I don't feel it's right to go into any detail on the Blue Crown's sales, but I would not say that I have stopped making money from it.
Also, Andrew is probably coming at this from a very personal place. It ties to his living, in a creative field, so there's likely passion attached. I know that's the case with me in my video work. It's completely understandable that he feel the way he does. I used to feel pretty similar. It's hard to put such emotions completely aside in a discussion like this.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts |
The sword of Damocles is hanging over my head - Peter Hinwood as RH
Not far to go now until 20.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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©NathanaelBergenMagic Regular user Warszawa, Poland 105 Posts |
I don't think you can brag about the number of pages in a thread when every other post is just someone spamming either: 'not far until page x', or simply stating what the number of the page currently is.
"Oh, you have an opinion? Let me delete that for you." ~ the magic cafe
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Stucky Inner circle I'm Batman! 1355 Posts |
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On 2013-03-13 18:27, gdw wrote: Trickles come in sure but most money from a magic product are made within the first couple months especially for a download. After that it tends to slow down and show up on the torrent sites.
Official Thread Killer
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
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On 2013-03-13 18:39, ©NathanaelBergenMagic wrote: Oh I think he can, Nathanael. Congratulations, Jamie, only 3 pages to go! Science Fiction.... Double feature..... |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2013-03-13 18:16, DanHarlan wrote: Sorry, I was unclear. I was saying "it COULD be said to be a 'prick' thing to do." Similar to how lying, though arguably simply you exercising your right to speak freely, can be considered a "prick" thing to do. I was attempting to point out that, even IF I disagree with the actions you may choose (as I've also said, I certainly wouldn't mind the publicity) I fully support your right to take those actions. I hesitate to say I "endorse" the idea, as, like I said, I do not wish to burn any bridges with Blue Crown. Your motives would play a part in whether you would be considerd a price or not. I don't think you're a prick. I think what you're talking about, depending on how you go about it, could benefit me in many ways. Truly the only reasons I would hesitate to "endorse" it, or participate, are the bridges built with Blue Crown. I don't need their permission, but I respect them and their involvement. Also, I can not predict the risks you may be taking due to the nature, and complexity, of the current IP system. Perhaps an other effect?
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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