The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Brian Brushwood (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next]
bonesly
View Profile
Regular user
London
176 Posts

Profile of bonesly
Quote:
On 2013-03-12 13:40, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-03-12 13:04, bonesly wrote:
. . .

My point is these are two different experiences.

1)One is an experience of awe as you sit and admire/appreciate the level of skill, coupled with the hard work and dedication involved when perfecting an act. (Tamariz)


Have you actually seem Tamariz live? You WILL experience wonder.

Quote:
On 2013-03-12 13:04, bonesly wrote:

2)The other experience is the sense of mystery/wonder that you get when you witness something you believe to be a true miracle.

These experience can be similar but they are not the same. In magic the second experience is more important than the first one.


You know, I pretty much agree, which is why you should stop focusing on "exposure" as you are propagating an attitude which is about preventing, and destroying the wonder, just as Raymond explained.

Quote:
On 2013-03-12 13:04, bonesly wrote:

As magicians we challenge peoples perceptions of reality and hopefully make them believe anything is possible.


Oh I disagree. Perhaps we can make the FEEL like anything is possible, but we should NOT be changing their perception of reality to the extent that the believe "anything" is possible. Make them feel like that in that moment, sure, but not changing their notion of reality. We should be celebrating reality.
Trying to make people believe anything is possible is more the tactic of "physics" (as opposed to mentalists) and other scam artists.

Quote:
On 2013-03-12 13:04, bonesly wrote:
With regards to P&T, like the MM they became famous by branded themselves as the magicians who expose the secrets.That was controversial and controversy sells, they are what we call sellouts. They didn't do it the hard/proper way like Copperfield or Blaine and countless over magicians, who relied mainly on there ability to market there ACT.


Lol, I'd agree about mm, but that is patently false in regards to Penn & Teller. They worked FAR
They worked FAR harder than Copperfield ever did. Not that Copperfield doesn't, and didn't work hard, but Penn & Teller have MORE than payed their dues. The controversy with their cups and balls certainly helped them, but they worked their asses off (relatively speaking, lets not kid ourselves, none of us work even half as hard as probably 2/3 the worlds population.)
Not to mention, Copperfield, and Penn & Teller consider themselves friends, and colleagues.
Not sure if Blaine and then consider themselves "friends," or more "acquaintances."


Quote:
On 2013-03-12 13:04, bonesly wrote:
But it worked for them and they benefited from it greatly. They made loads of money exposing magic on TV, whilst indirectly taking the potential earnings of many other magicians.

Like I said magicians have been forced to adapt and deal with exposure, but the exposure didn't help them it only helped the exposers.


I'd argue some people actually got MORE work due to the increased interest in magic. I know I did. As I explained before, not only did I notice more interest in magic, I was able to use audiences "knowledge" from "exposure" to fool them even more.



GDW your still failing to understand the difference between AWE and WONDER. They are similar but not the same.

I believe when you witness Tamariz that you are left in awe watching a master who has perfected his craft, however that feeling cannot be wonder if you know the method/secret to anyone of his effects.

Okay P&T have worked hard in selling their brand of entertainment. However, their brand is 'we are the guys who **** off all the magicians and tell you how the tricks are done'. That sounds controversial and is a great marketing ploy. It was mainly their brand that made them successful, people were naturally drawn to the controversy.

To be fair to P&T some of the exposure wasn't even really exposure. The exposure was done in a way to make lay audiences admire the secret and the puzzle. Some of the methods were more impressive than the actual tricks themselves. Also they mainly exposed their own routines and tricks, ones that they had invented. Although, I do remember them exposing the thumb tip, which left me annoyed when I went to school.

I'm glad you got more work because of Penn & Teller. I would be surprised if that was the case for most magicians around that time. In fact I think Penn has contributed to a negative view of magicians to the public.
When you hear Penn talk you get this feeling that he doesn't really like magic and he thinks most magicians are lame and cheesy.

I don't think a celebrity like him helps eradicate the negative stereotypes that the public have with magicians. So, in general, I don't agree with the notion that because of Penn and Teller more magicians have gained work.

IMO magicians like Copperfield, Blaine, Dynamo, Cyril etc have done much more to help improve the publics perception of magicians than MM, P&T and all the other sellouts have done.
bonesly
View Profile
Regular user
London
176 Posts

Profile of bonesly
Quote:
On 2013-03-12 14:00, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-03-12 13:22, bonesly wrote:
Oh by the way:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/cultu......ick.html

Like I said exposers will never really understand the damage until it knocks on their own door.


Yeah, this has bothered me. The cognitive dissonance they must be experiencing due to the conflict between their view of "secretary in magic and their antiquated views on intellectual "property."

That said, I believe Teller went after the guy for his initial "performing" of the knock off of Shadows. The guy's offer to sell an explanation of the routine was, as I am recalling, his response to Teller asking him not to perform it.
Of course I could be mistaken about the order of events, but, as I recall it, it was the "IP infringement" that upset Teller, not (necessarily, or at least not initially) the "exposure."

In my view, there's really no difference between exposure and "IP infringemen." They can both be, depending on the situation, dick things to do, however they are not inherently immoral.
Similar to burping. Nothing wrong with burping, and you have every right to burp, but it can be a rude, and dickish, thing to do depending on the situation.


What you believe is hearsay, the facts are there for all to see
gdw
View Profile
Inner circle
4816 Posts

Profile of gdw
Quote:
On 2013-03-12 15:39, bonesly wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-03-12 13:40, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-03-12 13:04, bonesly wrote:
. . .

My point is these are two different experiences.

1)One is an experience of awe as you sit and admire/appreciate the level of skill, coupled with the hard work and dedication involved when perfecting an act. (Tamariz)


Have you actually seem Tamariz live? You WILL experience wonder.

Quote:
On 2013-03-12 13:04, bonesly wrote:

2)The other experience is the sense of mystery/wonder that you get when you witness something you believe to be a true miracle.

These experience can be similar but they are not the same. In magic the second experience is more important than the first one.


You know, I pretty much agree, which is why you should stop focusing on "exposure" as you are propagating an attitude which is about preventing, and destroying the wonder, just as Raymond explained.

Quote:
On 2013-03-12 13:04, bonesly wrote:

As magicians we challenge peoples perceptions of reality and hopefully make them believe anything is possible.


Oh I disagree. Perhaps we can make the FEEL like anything is possible, but we should NOT be changing their perception of reality to the extent that the believe "anything" is possible. Make them feel like that in that moment, sure, but not changing their notion of reality. We should be celebrating reality.
Trying to make people believe anything is possible is more the tactic of "physics" (as opposed to mentalists) and other scam artists.

Quote:
On 2013-03-12 13:04, bonesly wrote:
With regards to P&T, like the MM they became famous by branded themselves as the magicians who expose the secrets.That was controversial and controversy sells, they are what we call sellouts. They didn't do it the hard/proper way like Copperfield or Blaine and countless over magicians, who relied mainly on there ability to market there ACT.


Lol, I'd agree about mm, but that is patently false in regards to Penn & Teller. They worked FAR
They worked FAR harder than Copperfield ever did. Not that Copperfield doesn't, and didn't work hard, but Penn & Teller have MORE than payed their dues. The controversy with their cups and balls certainly helped them, but they worked their asses off (relatively speaking, lets not kid ourselves, none of us work even half as hard as probably 2/3 the worlds population.)
Not to mention, Copperfield, and Penn & Teller consider themselves friends, and colleagues.
Not sure if Blaine and then consider themselves "friends," or more "acquaintances."


Quote:
On 2013-03-12 13:04, bonesly wrote:
But it worked for them and they benefited from it greatly. They made loads of money exposing magic on TV, whilst indirectly taking the potential earnings of many other magicians.

Like I said magicians have been forced to adapt and deal with exposure, but the exposure didn't help them it only helped the exposers.


I'd argue some people actually got MORE work due to the increased interest in magic. I know I did. As I explained before, not only did I notice more interest in magic, I was able to use audiences "knowledge" from "exposure" to fool them even more.



GDW your still failing to understand the difference between AWE and WONDER. They are similar but not the same.

I believe when you witness Tamariz that you are left in awe watching a master who has perfected his craft, however that feeling cannot be wonder if you know the method/secret to anyone of his effects.

Okay P&T have worked hard in selling their brand of entertainment. However, their brand is 'we are the guys who **** off all the magicians and tell you how the tricks are done'. That sounds controversial and is a great marketing ploy. It was mainly their brand that made them successful, people were naturally drawn to the controversy.

To be fair to P&T some of the exposure wasn't even really exposure. The exposure was done in a way to make lay audiences admire the secret and the puzzle. Some of the methods were more impressive than the actual tricks themselves. Also they mainly exposed their own routines and tricks, ones that they had invented. Although, I do remember them exposing the thumb tip, which left me annoyed when I went to school.

I'm glad you got more work because of Penn & Teller. I would be surprised if that was the case for most magicians around that time. In fact I think Penn has contributed to a negative view of magicians to the public.
When you hear Penn talk you get this feeling that he doesn't really like magic and he thinks most magicians are lame and cheesy.

I don't think a celebrity like him helps eradicate the negative stereotypes that the public have with magicians. So, in general, I don't agree with the notion that because of Penn and Teller more magicians have gained work.

IMO magicians like Copperfield, Blaine, Dynamo, Cyril etc have done much more to help improve the publics perception of magicians than MM, P&T and all the other sellouts have done.


I think you completely misunderstand me. Tamariz is one of the few who have made me truly feel like a laymen again. He fooled the **** out of me.
I am talking about people who CAN, and DO still fool you, and yes, even with methods you are familiar with. Just because you are aware of a method does not mean you cannot be taken in by it. Methods you know can be used to "fool" you.

Also, I was referring even more so to the MM being the one who created more interest in magic from which I benefited from, far more so than Penn & Teller at the time.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
davidpaul$
View Profile
Inner circle
Pittsburgh, Pa
2913 Posts

Profile of davidpaul$
Here is a quote from a a very successful well known magician: I respect his comments. Name withheld

"It's getting that reaction again and again and again that creates the desire to learn a new trick to perform. The awe and the question “How did you do that?” is a powerful moment. For magicians, it's not so much a matter of a big secret that we have, but it's the power of having the secret. How you answer the question - How did you do that? - determines where you'll end up going. If it's “Oh, that not a big deal, here, I'll show you how it's done,” then the magic just becomes a passing phase and you eventually become a doctor or a lawyer or something else. However, if you maintain the secrecy, then you control that power and eventually become a magician and learn another trick.

Just thought it was relevant to the conversation. But I'm thinking I should have left the sleeping dog lie.
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
Matt Adams
View Profile
Special user
Harvest, AL
826 Posts

Profile of Matt Adams
Quote:
On 2013-03-15 23:00, davidpaul$ wrote:
But I'm thinking I should have left the sleeping dog lie.


I was just thinking, "DANG IT ALL!"

haha
Website: www.MattAdamsMinistries.com

Instagram: @mattadamsministries

Facebook: www.facebook.com/mattadamsministries
writeall
View Profile
Special user
Midland, Michigan
930 Posts

Profile of writeall
Quote:
On 2013-03-15 23:00, davidpaul$ wrote:
Here is a quote from a a very successful well known magician: I respect his comments. Name withheld

"It's getting that reaction again and again and again that creates the desire to learn a new trick to perform. The awe and the question “How did you do that?” is a powerful moment. For magicians, it's not so much a matter of a big secret that we have, but it's the power of having the secret. How you answer the question - How did you do that? - determines where you'll end up going. If it's “Oh, that not a big deal, here, I'll show you how it's done,” then the magic just becomes a passing phase and you eventually become a doctor or a lawyer or something else. However, if you maintain the secrecy, then you control that power and eventually become a magician and learn another trick.

Just thought it was relevant to the conversation. But I'm thinking I should have left the sleeping dog lie.


Tell me more about the part where I become a doctor or a lawyer.
professorwho
View Profile
Loyal user
245 Posts

Profile of professorwho
I can't get excited about exposure of:
Invisible Deck
Sven
Stripper
TT
Cups and balls
Linking rings

Because they have been in the public domain for a very very long time and despite that fact spectators are still entertained by them.
I love sponges
ShirtlessKirk
View Profile
Loyal user
236 Posts

Profile of ShirtlessKirk
A big issue with online exposure now is that it is not at all difficult for spectators to look up these things on their phone right after seeing them. I've seen it happen many times. Good reason not to use the standard presentations/names of routines as it makes it much easier to look up. As for the issue of people still enjoying routines after they know the secret, they may appreciate the skill but it wont give them a sense of wonder. If you just want people to appreciate skill become a juggler. Magic to a degree depends on there being a mystery. Entertaining people is not enough.
professorwho
View Profile
Loyal user
245 Posts

Profile of professorwho
Quote:
On 2013-03-17 17:26, ShirtlessKirk wrote:
A big issue with online exposure now is that it is not at all difficult for spectators to look up these things on their phone right after seeing them. I've seen it happen many times. Good reason not to use the standard presentations/names of routines as it makes it much easier to look up. As for the issue of people still enjoying routines after they know the secret, they may appreciate the skill but it wont give them a sense of wonder. If you just want people to appreciate skill become a juggler. Magic to a degree depends on there being a mystery. Entertaining people is not enough.

Why on earth would you use the names of the routines?
To be honest if someone wants to look things up on their phone after seeing them they can't have been terribly engaged in the first place.
I think you are wrong about people not having a sense of wonder even if they know the routines, just look at kids watching a cups and balls routine even if they have a magic set with cups and balls in them.
I feel sad for people who can't accept that sometimes entertainment has to be enough, there are lots of people out there who don't like magic and react with hostility or disinterest- they are the people who are on the phone ruining things for themselves.
I love sponges
ShirtlessKirk
View Profile
Loyal user
236 Posts

Profile of ShirtlessKirk
I don't have a sense of wonder knowing the routines. I imagine it may be the same for others. I'm not suggesting someone would use the name of the routine when presenting it (it does happen, a laymen told me of a someone showing them stigmata - they knew what the trick was called) but using a popular presentation (ID) it could lead to someone finding an exposure easier. What I mean by entertainment is not enough is that if magic has anything to offer it is the sense of wonder and impossibility that comes with it. You need that impossibility otherwise why not watch other forms of entertainment.
ShirtlessKirk
View Profile
Loyal user
236 Posts

Profile of ShirtlessKirk
Also are there really "lots of people out there who don't like magic and react with hostility or disinterest". If that is the case why the hell do magic if there is a significant portion of people who don't care for it. Some may look for exposure because they don't care for being fooled but I think curiosity may be the overwhelming reason.
professorwho
View Profile
Loyal user
245 Posts

Profile of professorwho
Quote:
On 2013-03-17 18:26, ShirtlessKirk wrote:
Also are there really "lots of people out there who don't like magic and react with hostility or disinterest". If that is the case why the hell do magic if there is a significant portion of people who don't care for it. Some may look for exposure because they don't care for being fooled but I think curiosity may be the overwhelming reason.

Because there are enough people who like magic for it to be worth while.
I love sponges
professorwho
View Profile
Loyal user
245 Posts

Profile of professorwho
Quote:
On 2013-03-17 18:21, ShirtlessKirk wrote:
I don't have a sense of wonder knowing the routines. I imagine it may be the same for others. I'm not suggesting someone would use the name of the routine when presenting it (it does happen, a laymen told me of a someone showing them stigmata - they knew what the trick was called) but using a popular presentation (ID) it could lead to someone finding an exposure easier. What I mean by entertainment is not enough is that if magic has anything to offer it is the sense of wonder and impossibility that comes with it. You need that impossibility otherwise why not watch other forms of entertainment.

That sounds like you are thinking like a magician, our experience is not that of others. Even if they do not have a sense of wonder and they enjoy watching a skilful demonstration of prestidigitation then why not?
Magic is not some esoteric art that can only be effective in utmost secrecy, seriously!
Magic is a form of entertainment first and foremost, the magic comes from the performance not the "trick". This is why I don't really like or get the whole "street magic" thing, not my style of theatrics- give me a parlour or small table close up show any day.
I love sponges
ShirtlessKirk
View Profile
Loyal user
236 Posts

Profile of ShirtlessKirk
Maybe I'm optimistic but I think most people would like magic if shown good magic. I would really hate to believe that magic is disliked by any more than an insignificant portion of the population.
professorwho
View Profile
Loyal user
245 Posts

Profile of professorwho
Unfortunately there are enough people who have been scarred by bad magic :-(
I love sponges
Chris Meece
View Profile
Special user
Somerset Kentucky
819 Posts

Profile of Chris Meece
Quote:
On 2013-03-07 19:43, Andrew Zuber wrote:
I'm gonna stick by my original post. One of the most obnoxious things on the Internet.


We are definitely entitled to our own opinion especially to what we find obnoxious. Personally I don't like rap music, but I won't denigrate those who do. And for the people who like rap music, denigrate means ‘put down.'

:)

Revealing ID is a pretty bad move and I don't support it at all. But as to being obnoxious, I really liked his take on the spiked routine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOPT-BHX4Fk
All small town magicians know what 793.8 signifies.
Chris Meece
View Profile
Special user
Somerset Kentucky
819 Posts

Profile of Chris Meece
Quote:
On 2013-03-17 11:14, professorwho wrote:
I can't get excited about exposure of:
...
Stripper


Because they have been in the public domain for a very very long time and despite that fact spectators are still entertained by them.

Am I the only one who snickered at this?
All small town magicians know what 793.8 signifies.
Markymark
View Profile
Inner circle
1543 Posts

Profile of Markymark
What would be the difference between making an exposure video of the spikes under cup and the Invisible deck?
Please don't say it's alright as Brian no longer uses the Invisible deck in his shows!
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
Chris Meece
View Profile
Special user
Somerset Kentucky
819 Posts

Profile of Chris Meece
Markymark, I'm not sure if I follow you brother. Did you watch the video I posted? He didn't expose the spike under cup trick, he just did a cool version of it .. the framing was very cool. Or are you saying you would like to see how he felt if we exposed a trick he performs on stage?
All small town magicians know what 793.8 signifies.
Markymark
View Profile
Inner circle
1543 Posts

Profile of Markymark
Yes that's it Chris.I know it would be churlish and mean and show no respect for the craft but if I posted a video of how Brian does
the spikes under cup right beside his pretty good performance I don't think he would be pleased.Cheers.
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Brian Brushwood (10 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next]
X
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.31 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL