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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » HUNG DRAWN & QUARTERED J B ELITE LINE (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

gmsmagic1
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I was checking out a trick called HUNG DRAWN & QUARTERED J B ELITE LINE on Mark Mason's web site (http://www.jbtvusa.com/j-b-coin-tricks/hung-drawn-quartered-j-b-elite-line-411-87-502.php). I thought it looked like a pretty cool effect, although I believe I immediately figured it out based on my knowledge of gaffed coins. If what I suspect is actually the case, then this appears to be a much fancier self-working version of the Ellis Ring rope routine. And having bought many of Mark Masons products, I suspect that the quality of this coin is second to none and may allow for endless possibilities. The original Ellis Ring Rope routine never really excited me much, but in hindsight and with this new gimmick, it may actually make for a terrific bar bet type puzzler due to its simplicity.

That all said, the product has a fairly hefty price tag on it ($100). So before I take the leap, I was hoping other fellow magicians here might be able to offer some useful feedback about their experience using this effect or observing it in person. Is the quality what I suspect? Is this as self-working as I perceive? Can the coin be removed from the rope and examined by the spectator (assuming it's magnetic & locking)? How strong have the reactions been from spectators? Have you come up with any creative routines you're willing to share that fully utilize this gaffed coin and possibly go beyond what is offered? Are any switches or advanced moves needed? And most importantly, do you recommend it?

Thanks!

Gary
videoman
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Gary posed the same questions I was wondering, so if anyone can answer them you'd be helping us both out, and no doubt many others as well.
Not the least of which is Mark Mason as he will likely get a run on orders for the HD&Q!!! Smile
J-Mac
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It is a nice effect. Worth the $100 price tag? Depends on your magic budget! Keep in mind it is a one-trick gimmick. Other than the effect shown in the demo there isn't much else you can do with it.

Jim
bowers
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I own this effect and love it. As J-Mac said worth the money.
you end clean and only takes a minutes of practice and you
are ready to perform.
Todd
Chessmann
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This kind of gaff is generally available, without the hole, for much, much less. The hole offers some possibilities, though. I liked the use of the shoelace, using it to twirl the two coins together. A TUC is similar, as is Johnsons M******c C/S.

I purchased Captain and Coke 2.0. Didn't like it, at all. The penny side of the gaff's face actually had a dent so it could both fit inside the insert and be flush on the outside and fit with the 'gaff' on the inside. Also, the m***** was so small, the insert piece rocked. Not deal-breakers for others (obviously), but were for me.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
bowers
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But its not just the coin you get.
You also get the handlings and the routien too.
Todd
videoman
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The effect looks really good, I'm just uncomfortable with the idea of using coins with holes drilled in them. This always seems odd and out place to me and then I feel I have to come up with a presentation which justifies the holes or makes sense as to why they would be there. I mean to the specs wouldn't it make more sense to just thread 2 different sized metal washers onto the shoelace rather than drilling a hole in 2 coins?
I kind of wish in this case that the coins used were ones that genuinely have holes in them such as a Chinese coin or an African dime or something.

It depends on who you perform it for also. If you're performing for strangers at a paid gig that's one thing, but doing it impromptu for friends they'd probably be like "what?? did you drill that hole?, what'd you do that for?, wait let see those coins" and so on.
I know I may be over-thinking things, but you know how it is when there is a factor in a trick, be it the props or a method, that you are just not totally comfortable with? It's difficult to do the trick, because it may not bug anyone else, but it bugs you.
Bill
Chessmann
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Quote:
On 2013-03-08 20:16, bowers wrote:
But its not just the coin you get.
You also get the handlings and the routien too.
Todd


You get handlings and routines with the others, too.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
BanzaiMagic
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Quote:
On 2013-03-08 22:43, Chessmann wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-03-08 20:16, bowers wrote:
But its not just the coin you get.
You also get the handlings and the routien too.
Todd


You get handlings and routines with the others, too.

Yeah, but Mark Mason's Routines for HD&Q are creative and commercial. The routines for the C&C were somewhat disappointing IMO. I expected more given David Roth's praise for the product. You can get more out of this gaff than they show.
Poof-Daddy
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I will simply state for the record, although I don't own this item. ANYTHING by Mark Mason and Bob Swadling is TOP QUALITY in my book.
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TWOCAN
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Videoman has a great idea with the african dime and chinese coin.
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gmsmagic1
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Thanks for everyone's feedback here.

Videoman raised a valid concern and good solution. I personally am less concerned about spectators questioning why I drilled a hole in an American coin, but the fact that they are familiar with American coins and know that the hole doesn't belong almost screams gimmick or begs for them to want to examine or check it out (whether their reasons are out of skepticism, concern or intrigue). That said, any foreign coin would likely create the same sense of intrigue or curiosity when you get right down to it, and make a spectator want to look at them as well. And this folks raises the very point that I'm trying to make here! ...

As Poof-Daddy points out and I can also attest to, Mark Mason puts out some of the best gaffed coins you will ever see. And in my opinion, the best part about this specific trick is in its simplicity and the fact that you can have the spectator remove the coin from the rope and thoroughly examine it upon conclusion of the routine. In fact, I would think that you would want them to do this so that the magic of what you just accomplished sinks in. For this reason, unusual coins that spark intrigue, whether foreign or American with holes is not a bad thing (as long as you don't get arrested for defacing currency! lol). But seriously, you could just tell the truth and say that it's a novelty coin that you happened to create a cool magic routine around. Enough said.

Regardless, I took it upon myself to call Mark Mason today and shared with him the voiced concern here and nice idea Videoman presented. It turns out that there are some cosmetic challenges in trying to use Chinese coins for example. First he pointed out that the hole is bigger, so the shoelace won't hold the coin up - to which I replied that I think the trick would only be more impressive if it involved thicker rope. And that would remedy this issue. This couldn't be argued, but then he raised the more serious issue which is that the density of these coins has not allowed for secure insertion of magnets around the hole in their past attempts, and they will not sacrifice quality to satisfy a demand. I personally have a lot of respect for any company that consistently holds itself to a higher quality standard and won't settle for less to put out a sub-par product. And trust me, as many of you have probably learned the hard way, there are a lot of crap gaffed coins being sold out there. Well per this conversation, Mark Mason did agree to revisit this idea and get back to me. If they figure out a way to do this and it meets their quality standards, it's nice to know that they will customize the coins for me or others.

FYI, I learned that they hate making this particular gaffed set (although I'm sure they don't mind taking the orders!). It's apparently a royal pain to produce, which is why they presently have none in stock. That might also help justify the price tag. If you order a set from them, you will likely be looking at 2-3 weeks turnaround.

- Gary
bowers
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Just because there is a hole in the coin shouldn't scream gimmick.
if there wasn't a hole there you couldn't thread a string thru it.
there is a purpose for the hole.
gmsmagic1
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True, the hole does serve a purpose here. But any way you cut it (no pun intended!), the spectator can clearly see that this isn't a normal coin - regardless of how you intend to justify it's alteration. I do see your point here though. "Gimmick" is a poor choice of words in this case. Let's just say that the spectator can clearly see that the coin has been altered to accommodate the effect, which hopefully creates more intrigue then suspicion.

Again, my only point is that drawing attention to the coin is a good thing here since I want them to freely examine it afterwards. That, along with the vanish and transposition of the missing coin is what makes this such a high impact effect in my opinion.
videoman
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Gary,
Thanks so much for relaying your conversation with Mark Mason. Did he happen to mention trying any other coins with holes such as an African Dime, or did he only mention the Chinese coins?
Just wondrin'.
Bill
Stephon Johnson
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For those commenting on the "oddity" of drilled coins or drawing too much undue attention to them; I offer the following which has never failed to work for me. (to be fair: I don't own the Mark Mason version, but have always used the poor-man's version with a dime and penny)

I always present this effect after some others as a sort of "Controlled Challenge". Presented in an un-rushed manner, building the drama as each step increases the impossibility; it plays quite well.
I have always played the effect IN the spectator's hand. After the shoelace is threaded and tied, I place the coins into the spectators hand and have him/her to close their fist around the coins. After they choose a coin, I approach the tied ends and with obviously empty hands sloooowwwwly pull the string out of the fist to reveal their selection has "happened"!

I then have the spectator untie the shoelace and remove the penny. I PLAYS WELL!!

I think as presented, it completely disarms the spectators who might otherwise scrutinize the coins for having holes in them. Enjoy!
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gmsmagic1
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Bill, when I brought up the African Dime, he asked me if I had one. This led me to believe that he was willing to attempt to customize it for me if I send it to him. But the conversation shifted to the Chinese coin at that point since that is what they had already attempted to use with little success. I didn't revisit the African coin once I learned that the Chinese coin isn't a likely solution, since I saw no reason to resort to foreign coins unless both coins are going to be foreign. In other words, if you don't have the option of providing the contrast between a Chinese and African coin, you may as well just use the trick as supplied with 2 American coins.

I'm not sure I followed Stephons' presentation, since I'm not familiar with a penny/dime version and can't imagine coins that small with a hole in them. But it sounds like he's using a magicians choice to dictate the outcome. And by doing everything in the spectators hands, it distracts from any suspicion of foul play with the coins being used.
Poof-Daddy
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Hey gmsmagic1, congrats on that 50th post you now opened up all the secret catagories on the forum including the for sale section (right after the magic magazines) and the secret sessions where you can openly talk about the methods and gimmics and such. have fun checking out all thenew stuff you just opened. Smile Smile
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Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased).






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Chessmann
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Quote:
On 2013-03-09 00:33, BanzaiMagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-03-08 22:43, Chessmann wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-03-08 20:16, bowers wrote:
But its not just the coin you get.
You also get the handlings and the routien too.
Todd

You get handlings and routines with the others, too.

Yeah, but Mark Mason's Routines for HD&Q are creative and commercial. The routines for the C&C were somewhat disappointing IMO. I expected more given David Roth's praise for the product. You can get more out of this gaff than they show.


Woops! Didn't mean to include Captain and Coke - sorry! I never watched that dvd.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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