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Andy3142 New user 6 Posts |
Hi everyone,
This is a question for UK hypnotists. I'm already a hypnotherapist with therapy insurance. I'm interesting in doing stage hypnosis in particular clubs and I've got a few questions:- --- What does it cost to get insurance? - it's the weekend so I can't check but I'm 99% sure my existing insurance is only for therapy. --- Do I need to belong to any other organisation? --- In practical administrative steps is it then easy to get a license from the Local Authority for a particular venue? Eg is it case of send in a couple of photocopies and get a licence by return? Also, do I get the license or does the venue promoter get it? --- I don't want to work just anywhere, I want to work in particular clubs. If I don't do public demonstrations, but invite people one by one behind a curtain into a private alcove, do I need a license at all? Does the 1952 act cover that? --- Finally, curiousity basically, does the 1952 Hypnosis Act apply to street hypnosis? Many thanks! Andy |
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hypnofande New user 18 Posts |
Technically it is the responsibility of the venue which hired you to obtain the license. However, in practical terms, most venues will expect you to obtain the license. Cost can be prohibitive depending on the local authority - some may charge more than the fee you would get for the show (200+ pounds) whilst others might charge a nominal fee (20 pounds) or in some cases nothing. A lot of local authorities are very anti-hypnosis (eg Westminster and Manchester) - so it would be difficult to obtain a license from them - some insist that their enforcement officers attend the show to "monitor" your peformance (hence the high cost of the license).
You don't need a license if it is a private show with admittance by ticket not open to the general public which is why 99.9% of stage hypnosis shows in the UK take place in university unions, working men's clubs and corporate venues. Insurance cover for stage hypnosis shows used to be provided by membership of Equity but I understand that has now been withdrawn. The cost of obtaining insurance cover can be prohibitive which is why a lot of stage hypnotists don't bother with it.
Hypnosis - it's all in the imagination...
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Andy3142 New user 6 Posts |
Many thanks, that's helpful.
Andy |
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DrHyde New user 3 Posts |
Hi both,
I've just come across this thread and Andy has been asking some questions that have troubled me and I have spent a good amount of time online trying to figure out! Hypnofande - would you be able to clarify for me - is a 'private show' one that takes place in a private members club, or could it be an event that has ticketed entry (such as a ticketed music festival)? Or do you mean that the event must be ticketed and take place in a private members club? Also Andy's question about doing one-on-one hypnosis in a private alcove or room interests me as that is how I am planning to work, does that count as 'stage hypnosis' if its not before an audience - even if its done for entertainment purposes. In a way that is very unhelpful for these legal questions, my use of hypnosis falls between performance, therapy and research. I'm sure there's no easy answer these, but if anyone has any prior experience they could share I'd find it very useful! Thanks in advance for any help you can offer! Hyde |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Private members club means no advertising to members of the public. I think now its free to get a license. insurance costs from around £850 - £1000+ for stage. Your therapy insurance won't cover anything for stage.
Legalities don't mean much until something goes wrong. Many hypnotist go by that rule... Its up to you if you want to risk it. Some say its not a big risk. Its up to you. |
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Anthony Jacquin Inner circle UK 2220 Posts |
Stage Hypnosis Insurance is now as low as 150 pounds. PM me for the details.
Licenses are generally straightforward to apply for and get. Anthony
Anthony Jacquin
Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis Updated for 2016 Now on Kindle and Audible! |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Was a couple of years ago I got insurance for £150 supposedly for stage. On closer inspection it was useless. It covered everything up until the volunteers were on stage after that you were on your own. I had to cancel it and went with equity. Unless things have changed and I might be behind. There were only two companies that gave full cover and they were in the above price ranges.
There were a couple of options if you wanted to play with words and never use the word hypnosis or hypnotist. But that leaves it open as to if it would have any value should you ever have to use it. But I might be out of date and there really is genuine insurance that fully covers stage hypnotists for only £150. |
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quicknotist Special user 888 Posts |
I was in the UK last year and performed some street hypnosis in Bournemouth.
When Jon Chase applied for his licence under the act for a theatre show, he also included some street hypnosis promoting the show. As far as I know, he also got his insurance modified to cover me and others. Anyway, the licence was granted and the local council designated some areas of town where we could do the street hypnosis. The local council even sent a representative along to check up on us and at one point, we were politely moved out of an undesignated area and guided towards an appropriate part of the town. Note that Jon doesn't necessarily believe that The Act applies to street hypnosis, but in this case we saw an opportunity to have all bases covered. Quote:
On 2013-03-08 18:01, Andy3142 wrote: |
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quicknotist Special user 888 Posts |
Duplicate post deleted
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Anthony Jacquin Inner circle UK 2220 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-30 14:19, mindpunisher wrote: Why did you not inspect the policy before buying? Anthony
Anthony Jacquin
Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis Updated for 2016 Now on Kindle and Audible! |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
It was supposed to be for stage hypnosis it was only £150. It wasn't totally clear until I got the final document. I knew it was limited but could probably get a license with it as most council's wouldn't know. They even offered to leave out the exact details on main document to help me get it passed. But basically they covered any injury caused by the volunteers tripping up on the way to the stage. Once they got on the stage there was no cover.
You could probably get a license on insurance that doesn't give proper cover. I sent for it just to see what it was like. After I got it I realized it wasn't worth the risk. They refunded me with no complaints. I basically got it to see what the final document looked like and to make up my mind. Getting a license is one thing having your ass covered is another! |
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DrHyde New user 3 Posts |
Thanks for the info everyone. It seems as if there are a lot of grey areas but its good to know what precedents have been set by how the rest of you approach it.
I phoned my local council to ask what their procedure is for licensing, and they've promised to get in touch when they find out (kind of wish I hadn't asked now). |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-30 17:51, quicknotist wrote: As far as I am aware it applies to all "public demonstrations" of hypnosis. Why would it make a difference if its in a theatre or a street? Maybe it doesn't apply to doing stage hypnosis on a roof? My experience is in general people are lazy including council workers. It's only when something goes wrong and they might be in the firing line that attitudes change. When I did the show in Edinburgh the council didn't grant us a license until the very last minute. They came in and went over the venue with a fine tooth comb checking everything including wheelchair access etc etc etc not even related to hypnosis. The venue said that it had never experienced that sort of scrutiny before. Might be because Edinburgh is high profile for shows and the council is worried about them looking bad if something did go wrong.And they will be aware of the history and past problems. |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
It basically varies I think there is no problem until there is a problem...I personally would want to cover myself as much as I could. Everybody is different. The more high profile the higher the risk etc
Jon told me once that he would "never leave home without being insured." Insurance is another consideration. With all these no win no fee operators advertizing aggressively you don't want to find yourself in a bad situation. I know its rare but it happens. |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Question:
If you are promoting a non-hypnosis hypnosis show do you actually NEED hypnosis? I already carry public liability as an entertainer and MY solicitor answered: "No, you don't need a hypnosis licence if you're declaring it's NOT hypnosis". Dos anyone KNOW any different?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
I think its one of those things you won't know for sure until something goes wrong. Or someone challenges you. Putting aside the argument whether hypnosis exists or not if you do a hypnosis show its hypnosis no matter what you declare.
If you really don't want to do shows without a license there still lots of places you could do it away from the bigger towns anyway. Its whether you want to take the risk or not. Plus many councils in smaller town are more lenient and would probably grant you a license with insurance for therapy because they know no better. Its rare but all these questions only really matter when/if something goes wrong. |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Doing a show without a license at worst the show might be stopped if someone reports it. That's what I have seen over the years.
It will vary from council to council. Nothing big will happen until or of something goes wrong and makes news. Royal has been doing the "this is not hypnosis" thing for years. but I can tell you on one occasion a show near me was stopped by someone using this ploy. However after he went through the proper channels he got the show at a later date. So I don't see it being a huge risk one way or another. On the other hand if someone trips and falls over breaks something or makes some other claim.What do you think he will tell his lawyer? Most likely he and witnesses will tel him they were "hypnotized"..... After that your guess is as good as mines as how it may proceed. If our not bothered about that then just go ahead. No one can answer for sure if its a risk you are willing to take then go for it. |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Here's the scenario;
I declare there is no such thing as hypnosis and have a 'non-hypnosis' hypnosis show. I tell Fred he is Superman. Fred acts as if he is Superman. The audience laughs. Fred falls down and breaks his leg. Fred goes to a solicitor and claims he was hypnotised into believing he was Superman. I get contacted by the solicitor (through MY solicitor probably). I say 'First of all there is no such thing as hypnosis. However, yes he fell and broke his leg and I am culpable, that's why I carry public liability insurance which will totally cover Fred'. Questions: Where is the problem here? Who is unhappy and why? What judge in his right mind would make this into a court case and for what reason??
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
I don't know Bob your guess is as good as mine. The only thing that I see and its just guess work as all of this is - is that an insurance company who doesn't want to pay out might make a court case out of it.
Derren Brown tells his audiences he isn't psychic but most believe he is anyway. But Derren can prove it was tricks. Could you prove it wasn't hypnosis? I could see an insurance company looking into things more clearly. If I remember the license covers more than just hypnosis it covers all kinds similar processes. But Again that's just my take on it....... lets hope none of us are ever in that position to find out. There will be questions asked why he was running around like Superman? To which I'm pretty sure he will reply he couldn't help he was "hypnotized or something"... But I don't know just a thought.... break someone's leg try it and see I might worry about your insurance company they might refuse to pay out. Then .... |
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
But if the insurance company won't pay out or someone thinks that someone should pay out because THEY think it was hypnosis, they are going to legally define that and that it is something where the 'hypnotist' has a total power of control over the subject's actions. Who is going to do that and how?
If I tell a mate to run around a table and he does and breaks his leg, "He told me to do it!" won't stand up in any court of law as people are deemed responsible for their own actions. (Unless deemed insane)
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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