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Christophercarter Regular user 132 Posts |
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On 2013-03-15 09:56, Mindpro wrote: I ducked into that punch, didn't I? OK. Some perspective: When Michael Kent wrote that he gets three emails per month asking how to get into the campus market, I phoned him up and told him he'd better start expecting to get a lot more. But, yes, if you're successful in this field, you will get many people asking how they can get what you have. Usually at some point they will say, "I really hope I can get a tour like yours some day" My answer: No, you don't! What's it really like? First, it's constant travel. Not like most business travel where you get to be in the same hotel room for a few days to a few weeks. It's a different city every day. Sometimes two different cities per day. Every day. Sometimes for weeks on end. This is not a lifestyle that's conducive to a good family life and successful social relationships. Second, you are never not working. When you're not doing a show, you're either traveling to one or preparing for one. Even when you're travelling you're emailing and calling upcoming shows to advance the details. I'm not exaggerating this. When on tour you may easily be working 18 hours per day. Granted, it doesn't all feel like work. But the point is, this is not a path for people with weak constitutions. So what are the right reasons? First, you have to really want to work with young people. There's no point in doing this if you don't like them, don't respect them, or don't relate well to them. Second, your attitude toward your career had better be like the guy who shoveled elephant dung at the circus: "What, and give up show business?!" Colleges are seldom built in glamorous locations (or easy to get to locations, sadly. And while you will occasionally get some very nice performance venues, often you will end up in Caféterias, gyms, even hallways. Don't get me wrong. There are many plus sides to this. There are a small number of mystery performers who are making what most magicians would consider very good money, sometimes more annually than many who work in the corporate market. But you will have to work a lot harder for your money, by which I mean much greater volume, much more difficult travel. So if you go into this market, you had better believe that this is the perfect fit for you, and you'd better want it more than just about anything else in your performing life, or you're not going to get it. |
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MichaelDouglas Special user Portland, Oregon 766 Posts |
Insightful. Thanks guys.
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Chad Sanborn Inner circle my fingers hurt from typing, 2205 Posts |
So far it sounds like the same stuff I and many other entertainers are already doing. I will say that the market does seem to be saturated. But a lot of the magic that I have seen from college entertainers seems to be similar. If I didn't know better, I would say that the professionals from the college market try to make it sound bad to keep competition away. I see the same thing in acting. Everyone is your friend until it affects their pocket.
Either way, the answers to all of these questions can be found by doing some research. Colleges book through agents. (mostly) So the key isn't worrying about booking a college, its booking an agent. Let the agent sell you. Then do the shows and sell yourself. Same as in acting. Its not the best actor who books a role, its the one who auditioned the best. Too saturated, must have A+ material, Be different, blah blah blah If its a goal that you really want to achieve, then don't listen to the negatives of anyone else. Just create your own path and do it! |
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Christophercarter Regular user 132 Posts |
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On 2013-03-16 10:03, Chad Sanborn wrote: Then you should know better. I've mentored several performers in the college market and some of them are now among the most popular acts. I'm not saying what I know to keep competition down. I'm trying to make people aware of the scope of the commitment this represents. In that sense you analogy to acting is spot on. Quote:
Either way, the answers to all of these questions can be found by doing some research. Colleges book through agents. (mostly) So the key isn't worrying about booking a college, its booking an agent. Let the agent sell you. Then do the shows and sell yourself. Same as in acting. Its not the best actor who books a role, its the one who auditioned the best. There is some truth to this, but with caveats. First,the agency system is in rapid decline on colleges. More people than ever are self-represented, especially at first. Granted, acencies are still important, but not as much as they were even five years ago. Second, due to the saturation of magic, agencies are not particularly interested in looking at another magic act unless you've already had some track record of success on campuses. So if magic is your goal, you're going to have to book yourself first before you can attract an agent, at least a good one. Your audition analogy works best when applied to showcases. Often very good acts don't showcase well. I'm rather spotty as a showcase. Sometimes I click, sometimes not so much. And yet I've performed at almost 2700 campuses. I've found strategies to play to my strengths. That's important in any market. Quote:
Too saturated, must have A+ material, Be different, blah blah blah The key is to honestly understand the market so you know if it really is the goal you want to achieve. What Mindpro and others have said is that a lot of people have a mistaken idea of what it really entails. Other than that, you've done nothing but simultaneously agree with and dismiss everybody who's posted on this thread. Nobody said don't do it. They said go into it with a clear idea of what it is you're shooting for. I'll put it this way, if you're the person who wants the college market in spite of the negatives, you're the right person for the job. |
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BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts |
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On 2013-03-16 10:03, Chad Sanborn wrote: Then you don't know better. Ask the guys who have tried the college circuit and failed. There are hundreds of them. I will personally admit that I was well into my third year of dedicating myself to the college market, WITH one of the best college entertainment agencies representing me, and had sunk easily $15k out of my own pocket before I started making real money. The guys who are giving advice about colleges are speaking blatantly and truthfully. So if it "sounds bad" to you, then you probably shouldn't be looking into this market. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I love the optimism of such a claim.
Want to know what keeps the guys who make it on the college market busy? Their act, their dedication, the "what and quit show biz" attitude Christopher mentions. The claim that giving fantastic advice is being done in an effort to keep away competition is ludicrous. Guys wonder why people avoid helping and it is accusations like that which keep them away.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Matt Adams Special user Harvest, AL 827 Posts |
Meh, give your advice and get out. If the guy you are advising has any sense at all, he'll figure out the best path based on the advice. If he doesn't have sense, he probably shouldn't be tryin to break into the college market.
Thanks for everyone's advice! Most seemed quite good. I've been performing for many years myself and just recently gotten my show into a decent position. This summer I'll be flying to Vegas to work with Beckett Studios on a photo shoot sometime during Magic Live. These photos will help form the basis of a website overhaul that is much-needed for me. Once I have these two major steps completed, I'll be finishing new video promo work, I hope. Long summer ahead of me! But should be fun too.
Website: www.MattAdamsMinistries.com
Instagram: @mattadamsministries Facebook: www.facebook.com/mattadamsministries |
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Chad Sanborn Inner circle my fingers hurt from typing, 2205 Posts |
And if you want advice on magic, never ask a magician...
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Circusman Special user Kent, England. 555 Posts |
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On 2013-03-15 06:11, tacrowl wrote: And I'm joining your Vent course ??? HELP !!! |
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tacrowl Inner circle Maryland 1633 Posts |
Lol! Don't sweat Circusman - the turnout was more a result of the college activity board scheduling during exam week and not following through on the promotion properly.
Tom |
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Circusman Special user Kent, England. 555 Posts |
Do you mean they didn't ALL know you were coming ? LOL !
But - 3 - I don't even have that many relatives ! Come to think of it, I don't have ANY relatives ! I do have two boys and a dog though. One of the boys is Foam and the other boy and the dog are Latex. I used to have another latex one - but we won't go into that !!! |
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BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts |
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On 2013-03-17 16:28, Circusman wrote: Trust me when I tell you that the audience turnout at colleges has very little to do with you unless you're a big name in the circuit or from TV. I've had 800+ and standing room only as my largest college turnout, and 9 as my smallest. Within three months of each other. |
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Nash Inner circle Hong Kong ~ USA 1101 Posts |
I just entered the college circuit last year and everything you hear from Michael Kent (awesome meeting you at the Nat. conf. btw), Chris Carter, and Brian Miller were true. This is indeed a very saturated market for magicians -- you'll really have to enjoy working with students to work it. And yes, you'll have to bring something completely different to catch their attentions! The last time I went to these conf. there were ... about 12-13 magicians/mentalist working it. There were three magicians right across from me and three booths down from me. Sometimes I wonder if the students have the stomach to watch that many magicians for 3 days straight as it is an extremely overwhelming experience for them too.
As for financial commitment, if you want to attend every regional & national conferences from NACA or APCA, it'll cost you at least $25-30 grand PER YR to only attend and have a booth -- that doesn't even count the money that you'll need for a showcase. One thing I do wanna say though, is that although there is a lot of competitions, everyone is really nice to each other and I've made some great magician friends through these conferences. After all, you have to be a pretty cool cat to want to work with college students
I teach leaders the magic of curiosity and empathetic communication. keynote Speaker | Seattle magician
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
In reality the choice is yours. If someone here doesn't like the advice, thinks there is incorrect info being offered to keep the market to themselves, then go ahead and try it yourself. Why come here seeking info if you are not going to learn from it. Then go ahead, attempt to enter the market, spend your money, and if you more than likely do not succeed then come back here and complain, or better yet bow out to never be heard from again, go ahead.
It's a shame when performers with actual experience come here, share the proper information from the inside, information that only comes with personal experience, and deliver up for you for free on a silver platter just simply for the asking, only to have them their info and their intentions questioned? No wonder so many pros are reluctant to come here and share. Sometime the truth and reality isn't what some want to hear I guess. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Nope. For decades magic dealers have sold dreams. That is all people want.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Matt Adams Special user Harvest, AL 827 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-03-18 18:41, Mindpro wrote: True that. BUT to play devil's advocate - if the guy asking the question (in this case ME) doesn't know anything about the market in the first place, it stands to reason he may have a difficult choice in deciding who's advice to take. It's completely obvious to me who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't - but I'm playing devil's advocate. SO I don't think it's fair to put down the newcomers for not immediately accepting good advice. Hey...they are new! I wouldn't just jump onto the first train that comes along either! Furthermore, they may have heard BAD advice and not really know who or what to believe now. My earlier comments in this thread, however, are applicable in that if a person can't determine what advice to follow at this level, they probably aren't ready to be breaking into the college market.
Website: www.MattAdamsMinistries.com
Instagram: @mattadamsministries Facebook: www.facebook.com/mattadamsministries |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Matt the spacific comment that is offensive is after a guy who has been in the market successfully for over a decade anda guy on his way to it give advice and they are accused of having ulterior motives such as keeping the market to themselves. THAT is out of line.
Accusations are not part of the learning process.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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gadfly3d Special user 963 Posts |
I have a comment on this idea of "market saturation" and it applies not just colleges but any market. If by saturation one means that there a lot of people who want to be in the market this is eternally true but if one means that all colleges have so many magicians performing at the so much that there is no room for more, I doubt it.
I also doubt that beyond being competent the solution is developing ones act. The answer is......? I don't know and might not reveal if I did. The point is if you want to work colleges, or any other market, go for it and find a way. Gil Scott |
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NormanMagic! New user Portland, Maine 15 Posts |
I don't post here much if at all, so you can take what I have to say with a grain of salt.
I think you're lucky to have even received comments from Michael Kent and Chris Carter. You should take it with grace. I personally think it's dis-respectful to even ask this question on something like a forum, without knowing the people giving the answers personally. We have spent tens of thousands of dollars and years of sacrifice, pain, and confusion to do what we do and know what we know. I would never offer that hard earned answer to a casual question asker. I will tell you to go pay and then play, and figure it out on your own. Who do you think you are to not only ask this question, but then shoot down the answers given? Would you tell the secret to a trick if some punk kid asked you after your show, " Can you tell me the secret to your tricks? I hear there is good money in doing magic tricks, but don't know any magic secrets." |
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BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts |
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On 2013-03-19 11:35, NormanMagic! wrote: Bingo. Well said Norman. |
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