The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » New buskers set of tricks (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
Faulkner
View Profile
Loyal user
New Orleans
249 Posts

Profile of Faulkner
Magic is a subset of acting....Someone smarter than me said that.
ShirtlessKirk
View Profile
Loyal user
236 Posts

Profile of ShirtlessKirk
Quote:
On 2013-05-05 22:14, Dick Oslund wrote:
Well Mr. Shirtless Kirk, you are certainly entitled to your OPINIONS.

OPINIONS, however, are just that.

At the risk of this becoming an 'ad hominem argument', I will simply say this:
When you have had some real experience performing as a magician, you may have learned something.

(Sophocles said thousands of years ago: "One learns by DOING THE THING."

Although, it's not necessary to be a full time performing professional magician to be an entertaining magician, it is necessary to at least understand the basic philosophy of a magician. It is further necessary to be able to define the terms used in the performance of magic.

I am not going to accuse you of intellectual dishonesty. I am not going to accuse you of invincible ignorance. But, you do appear to have 'earned' both of those 'descriptions'.

Considering your attitude, and your creed, I really have sympathy for any audience that you perform for, --or any young, impressionable magicians whose performing experience that you affect.

in MY OPINION, you will probably continue to express your beliefs, and also, in my OPINION, the world of magic will be the poorer for it.

This is my final word on this topic, I do not hide behind a pseudonym. I am not afraid to affix my 'signature' to anything I write.

Dick Oslund




These of course are not only my opinions. The quote I had posted earlier was from the Darwin Ortiz book Strong Magic. So basically any magician who feels magic has some inherent entertainment value must be lacking in performance experience to "know" that it is otherwise?

In your opinion those who espouse such beliefs are doing magic a disservice?

I guess I need to get out of magic as I guess I have no understanding of how a laymen views magic.

If laymen don't find magic to have some inherent entertainment value, if this is a fact, I will get out magic as I see no reason to waste my time with something laymen would only find marginally interesting.
Paddy
View Profile
Inner circle
Milford OH
1571 Posts

Profile of Paddy
Kirk, Magic does not have an intrinsic entertainment value, but for that fact a lot of music doesn't entertain either. The value is put in by the performer. Anybody can sing a song, but believe me you don't want to hear me sing, however Luciano Pavarotti can sing the alphabet and get a standing O for it. He is a real performer and musician. I have done shows and been preceded by some little kid who did the same effect as one in my show. [I did not do that one so as not to embarrass the kid] Same effect' little Johnny got nothing, in my shows I get applause. It's not the magic it's the performance.
Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis

I reject your reality & substitute my own

http://www.Scho-Lan.com
Dick Oslund
View Profile
Inner circle
8361 Posts

Profile of Dick Oslund
Thanks Paddy, for your 'back up'

I've been digging through a pile of old books, looking for the first printed explanation of the twisted string, cut & restored string trick (for want of a better name~~!) and came across a short 'essay' by Mark Wilson, written in one of the early KID STUFF books (Frances Marshall). Mark Wilson agrees with us, and in almost identical words!

I do not like to get embroiled in argumentative discussions, but, I've noticed that there are a great many YOUNG guys joining this motley crew. They are full of energy and enthusiasm! --But, not much knowledge, wisdom or experience.

I'm sure that only a few of them will really stay that interested and progress to performing a creditable show, but, they deserve, at least to be "exposed" (oops, I should never use THAT word!)to the 'real work'. If nothing else, they'll better appreciate a good magic show, when they see one!

I'm not going to pass along how a "trick works" to someone whom I don't know well, but I do feel that we can help these future "greats" (!!!???!!!) understand how "magic works"! (Philosophy, psychology, etc.)

When I worked high schools, I would follow my opening trick with a brief explanation of how our senses function in relation to our brains. I would point out that a magic show was about 85% applied psychology, 5% sleight of hand skill, 5% esoteric science principles, and 5% sensory illusions. I then did several simple tricks like the old stretching boomerangs, to help them understand. (The idea of doing that was passed along to me by the late Roy Mayer, a veteran school show magician and one of my early mentors.)

These young people then realized that although I hoped to fool them, for fun, I WAS NOT PLANNING TO TRY TO MAKE FOOLS OF THEM.

They came into the auditorium sometimes with a negative attitude toward magic. Before they left at the finish, They very often STOOD UP WHEN THEY APPLAUDED!!!

Over the years, in many schools, I was rebooked every three or four years. (They always told me that when I came the first time, they were going to give me a chicken feather overcoat with a tar lining, but the tar hadn't been hot enough, and they wanted another opportunity!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
ShirtlessKirk
View Profile
Loyal user
236 Posts

Profile of ShirtlessKirk
I believe music has inherent entertainment value, a band, singer, musician without an ounce of showmanship but technical ability still can entertain to some degree. Without the entertainment value being there intrinsically you would have a shaky foundation upon which to build from. Just because one states that magic has inherent entertainment value does not mean you want/expect people to stop at mere technical understanding of how magic works and not develop any further.

Now it may be that those who think this way of magic believe that no art has inherent entertainment value and that magic is no different.

I just don't see why anyone would think that of magic and not other forms of entertainment but still choose to do magic instead of something else they think has inherent entertainment value.

Ricky Jay stated that "Magic is a powerful art that can support a weak performer."

Becoming a better performer makes it all the more entertaining and should be a goal of all who desire to perform but you can't ignore magic's inherent value to entertain.
ed rhodes
View Profile
Inner circle
Rhode Island
2758 Posts

Profile of ed rhodes
Quote:
On 2013-05-04 21:42, Dick Oslund wrote:

Another was so bad that the bureau manager cut him off in the middle of his first trick.

MAGIC IS NOT INHERENTLY ENTERTAINING. A talented magician, who has done his 'homework' can make it entertaining.


Note that every magician you mentioned was doing bad magic. Even the tricks that worked were not well chosen for the venue.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Dick Oslund
View Profile
Inner circle
8361 Posts

Profile of Dick Oslund
Ed....I WAS THERE...WERE YOU?

The TRICKS that were done were good tricks. It was the performers who were not good.

Magic only happens in the mind of the spectator. No, the magic wasn't bad. It was the inept performers who had no concept of how to present the tricks they were performing (?) so that the performance would be entertaining, that was bad.

It was not the venue. The tricks were OK. It was the poor performances.

I posted recently some definitions of terms in the BOXES, TUBES, BAGS forum.
The topic was: "What's a great opening effect for a small audience". May I suggest that you check out that post.

I do have some credentials! I am not a 'first o' May' I have about 68 years of performing experience, all over North America. I have worked national and regional conventions, I have worked the Magic Castle several times. I have done corporate work, I have done about 20,000 school shows. I have been involved in writing, editing and publishing several of MAGIC INC. books.
('KID STUFF FIVE' and 'ENCYCLOPEDIA OF IMPROMPTU MAGIC'. I have presented my lecture at national conventions, at the Magic Castle, several times (Dai Vernon told me that "A lot of the castle magicians should have been here for this!") and perhaps a hundred local magic clubs. --and have repeated the lecture at many clubs.

What is your experience?
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Paddy
View Profile
Inner circle
Milford OH
1571 Posts

Profile of Paddy
Quote:
On 2013-05-06 13:32, ShirtlessKirk wrote:
...I just don't see why anyone would think that of magic and not other forms of entertainment but still choose to do magic instead of something else they think has inherent entertainment value...

Kirk, I do it because I am GOOD at magic and entertaining. Look at any trick, it takes a few minutes to learn how to do it. But yjere is no way anybody will entertain with it. BUT, when I put my self, my body, my soul, my personality into this "trick" it becomes an effect. Suddenly 1 minute of boredom becomes 7 to 10 minutes of memories for my audience. Why? Not the magic, but ME, what I have put into it.

I know it sounds egotistical, but I believe it to be true.
Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis

I reject your reality & substitute my own

http://www.Scho-Lan.com
tboehnlein
View Profile
Inner circle
ohio
1783 Posts

Profile of tboehnlein
Lets see if I can clarify, do you believe this video is inherently entertaining, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MH4941WYFU, I would say no.

But this is the same effect I find quite entertaining,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDCUXymvDYI
ShirtlessKirk
View Profile
Loyal user
236 Posts

Profile of ShirtlessKirk
Quote:
On 2013-05-07 12:55, Paddy wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-05-06 13:32, ShirtlessKirk wrote:
...I just don't see why anyone would think that of magic and not other forms of entertainment but still choose to do magic instead of something else they think has inherent entertainment value...

Kirk, I do it because I am GOOD at magic and entertaining. Look at any trick, it takes a few minutes to learn how to do it. But yjere is no way anybody will entertain with it. BUT, when I put my self, my body, my soul, my personality into this "trick" it becomes an effect. Suddenly 1 minute of boredom becomes 7 to 10 minutes of memories for my audience. Why? Not the magic, but ME, what I have put into it.

I know it sounds egotistical, but I believe it to be true.





Not sure any trick takes a few minutes to learn how to do it. Not one thing in my repertoire took that short a time to learn. I think people are missing the point. If magic has no inherent value to entertain why choose to do magic over something else. Being good at it is not enough reason. If magic has to be sugar coated for people to enjoy it I can't see much value in it.
ShirtlessKirk
View Profile
Loyal user
236 Posts

Profile of ShirtlessKirk
Quote:
On 2013-05-07 13:19, tboehnlein wrote:
Lets see if I can clarify, do you believe this video is inherently entertaining, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MH4941WYFU, I would say no.

But this is the same effect I find quite entertaining,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDCUXymvDYI



I like Mike Gallo and yes he took an old effect and did something different with it but I find neither entertaining, mainly because I don't think much of ball and vase.
Dynamike
View Profile
Eternal Order
FullTimer
24111 Posts

Profile of Dynamike
Quote:
On 2013-03-24 06:21, magicman491 wrote:
Is it true that the longer your show is, the more people will pay?
Should I do a 30-40 min show? Or 3X10 min shows.
Which option will most likely make more money ?
Thanks

You must be creative. Do not copy off of anyone else. Be yourself. One problem with busking is there are individuals who trying to do an act like someone else.

One thing with timing depends on how good you are at keeping attention. My busking last approximately 30 minutes per act. I wear colorful clothes to help attract attention. I use bigger props so the laypersons can see my act farther away. I am loud so others will notice my act at a longer distance. Those are just a few tips I have to offer.

Magicman, I was already a professional magician when I started to be become a busker. I had a big head start from doing magic over 30 years. Do you do shows on a regular basis? What are the favorite effects you have to offer that the crowd will enjoy? The best way to put your act together and see how it runs. You might want to add more effects in your act. If you are not keeping the audience attention by not controlling the laypersons or making contact you might want to take out certain effects. Whatever the time adds up to is YOUR time.
ed rhodes
View Profile
Inner circle
Rhode Island
2758 Posts

Profile of ed rhodes
Quote:
On 2013-05-07 09:47, Dick Oslund wrote:
Ed....I WAS THERE...WERE YOU?

The TRICKS that were done were good tricks. It was the performers who were not good.


If I'd been there, I wouldn't have said; "every trick you described"

By "bad magic" I mean magic done badly.

You have someone doing a trick well, but not taking his setting into account (black stage, black outfit, black bag)
it's not going to work.

You have someone doing a close up trick in an arena, it's not going to work.

So it's not that MAGIC in and of itself is not inherently entertaining, it's that magic done badly is not inherently entertaining.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Yekrats
View Profile
Loyal user
Dayton, Indiana
209 Posts

Profile of Yekrats
Quote:
I do think that I've wasted my time trying to be helpful.


Nah, don't worry about it. Your helpful advice is helping other lurkers, like me! Smile
--
Corporate or event magic & mentalism: http://WizardoftheWabash.com
Yekrats
View Profile
Loyal user
Dayton, Indiana
209 Posts

Profile of Yekrats
I am beginning to break into the magic world on a pay status, and what you mention above rings true to me. Last year I busked a few times, did a couple of parlor shows, and did walkaround party magic, all for pay. It was a doubly great feeling. However, I'm still working out the kinks.

Important lessons for me: Magic is 90+% non-magic! It is entertainment that is occasionally punctuated by special effects. The stuff in between the magic - including the lead-up and the wind-down - is probably more important than the magic moments itself.

Magic is a lot more 'zingier' if you first establish a connection with the audience. The audience had better like you, or your magic will be about as exciting as a popping balloon. Yes, it's loud and surprising and jolting, but will leave you with an empty feeling if they don't have an emotional connection.

Finally, I'm learning not to reinvent the wheel. The classics are classics for a reason. I have been starting off with an established act, something I strongly suspect will work into my act. Sometimes, I try something, and it doesn't work. Sometimes I try something that does work. When I find a trick that fits, I do it over and over again, until the trick is "mine". The patter evolves, the style evolves. I find my own way of doing it. I find a laugh-line that works, and I try it later. Sometimes it's close to the original, and sometimes it's farther away, but the magic fits into my groove, and not me into it.
--
Corporate or event magic & mentalism: http://WizardoftheWabash.com
troppobob
View Profile
Veteran user
Crescent Head Australia
372 Posts

Profile of troppobob
G'day Scott as well as other contributors and also to the lurkers.
This has been an interesting discussion - and I like what Scott has said above - it makes sense to me both in regard to my experience and also lines up with much of what has been written on the subject.
Bob Latta (aka Troppo Bob)
Zack
View Profile
Special user
551 Posts

Profile of Zack
O chestnut-tree, great-rooted blossomer, Are you the leaf, the blossom or the bole? O body swayed to music, O brightening glance, How can we know the dancer from the dance?
MR Effecto
View Profile
Inner circle
2598 Posts

Profile of MR Effecto
I open with some coin tricks just to get my audience in. Then I perform Chop, Having fun with the people. Getting to now there names along the way. Throw in a hat pitch. Then depends on time I do the cup and balls or some rope effects. I like to kep my show around 10 min long. 15 to 20 is the longest, depending on my audience.
MagicMatt629
View Profile
New user
14 Posts

Profile of MagicMatt629
Great advice here. Always remember: do what you love and love what you do. If you love the effects you are doing, it will show and your audience will see it. You will be enthusiastic and that enthusiasm will rub off quickly. It doesn't matter if you are doing a simple coin flurry or complex card flourishes, if you are excited about it, your show will prosper. The important thing is get the audience to like you. Once you do, you can entertain for hours. (Although you want to keep is short when busking but the potential for lengthy entertainment is there.) When the audience likes you and if you mess up an effect, it won't matter because you've already established that relationship. Keep it simple. Keep it slow. And have fun.
#BelieveTheImpossible



www.facebook.com/MattThomasMagic
skilldini
View Profile
New user
42 Posts

Profile of skilldini
Busking in a couple weeks. bobby is letting me try. Cincinnati July 14 or so...i suppose rice orange & checkers is to tipsy. zombie silks get caught in the wind. balls have angles, cards can play small so I need 5 to take one - you you you you you. coins are small...but one can end up somewhere remote or bent after signed. ropes may be ok...big fat ropes...in your face prof. nightmare...in and out...i am thinking water cups...but don't want to get my close up pad wet....need a waiter tray...it will be hot, need a bucket with water...for refills...in their hands may be smart...Sugar packet but sticky...11 bill trick, 11 card trick, sponges, center tear, magic square, tip of the thumb, rings, cups, Slydini silks, coin...miser glass, visible like abbott...for attention early...the hook, what is the hook? my voice probably. coin bender...all easily do-able and will be fun to play...will be very interesting to see how much I garner for my efforts...
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » New buskers set of tricks (1 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.18 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL