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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Interesting article about a physician whose clinical and scientific specialty is resuscitation of dead patients, here.
Quote:
In Parnia's ideal world, the way that people are resuscitated would first take in the knowledge that machines are much better at CPR than doctors. After that, he suggests, the next step is "to understand that you need to elevate the level of care". The first thing is to cool down the body to best preserve the brain cells, which are by then in the process of apoptosis, or suicide. |
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Daryl -the other brother Special user Chicago 594 Posts |
Reminds me of an episode of "Night Gallery" I once saw. It had a bad outcome.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Creepy but still.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
"All I can say is what I have observed from my work. It seems that when consciousness shuts down in death, psyche, or soul – by which I don't mean ghosts, I mean your individual self – persists for a least those hours before you are resuscitated. From which we might justifiably begin to conclude that the brain is acting as an intermediary to manifest your idea of soul or self but it may not be the source or originator of it… I think that the evidence is beginning to suggest that we should keep open our minds to the possibility that memory, while obviously a scientific entity of some kind – I'm not saying it is magic or anything like that – is not neuronal."
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
? so basically David Caridine was seeking enlightment?
subjective experience is not the same as useful experimental data. Is there an antidote to the annectode?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Interesting article.
But what's the point of bringing folks back if in fact they were sick enough to die in the first place? To put them through more misery? What kind of quality of life is that? Certainly the good doctor doesn't suggest that we can live on and on? My own dear mother died two years ago at the age of 89, from severe emphysema because her heart finally gave out. She was on a machine similar to a C-Pap machine and O2 was being pumped into her lungs, keeping her heart beating. But she was gone. There was nothing there when I looked into her eyes and tried to communicate with her. She had been asked the day before if she wished to be kept alive by machines and she said "No." Our family decided to take her off the machine when asked by the medical team and she was declared dead some time later after I had left the hospital, which surprised me. So Dr. Parnia does make some valid points about her prospects of being "brought back." But she suffered greatly in death and could hardly breathe. How could we bring her back to that?
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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But what's the point of bringing folks back if in fact they were sick enough to die in the first place? I understand what you are saying, but note that the subjects referred to in the article lived normal and healthy lives after being resuscitated. The techniques simply served to provide the vital time needed to deal with correctable problems which caused premature "death." There's no suggestion that such techniques were used simply to extend a dying person's misery. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Consciousness results as a byproduct of the entire body/mind interaction, of which the brain and nervous system is but a piece.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Or, perhaps, Mind exists independently of body/consciousness, which may be mere conduits through which Mind is filtered.
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Interesting, but I'm not sure how a mind can exist independently of a brain. If that's the case, then why aren't we experiencing our normal mental lives when our brains are altered under anesthesia? Surely an "independent" mind would not be affected by the state of our body/consciousness under anesthesia, no? And why does nobody have any memory of before their birth (pre-brain)? Apparently, there is a direct causal connection between brain and mind. No brain, or defective brain, or short-circuited brain (via anesthesia), equals no mind.
Good article though. Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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irossall Special user Snohomish, Washington 529 Posts |
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On 2013-04-09 05:47, mastermindreader wrote: Bingo! Talk to medical people (I have) and you will hear many stories of people under the knife or clinicaly dead, being able to describe activity outside of their view or hearing. This independent "Mind" is what some call a Soul. The brain in my opinion is a filter that under certain conditions will spring a "leak" and allow one to experience a consciousness unfamiliar to the masses. Strange opinion, I know but it is and has been my opinion for many years now. I know this puts me in the tin foil cap crowd but then again, I don't care. It is just my personal take on things. Iven
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
"When I first got interested in these mind/body questions, I was astonished to find that no one had even begun to put forward a theory about exactly how neurons in the brain can generate thoughts," he says. "We always assume that all scientists believe the brain produces the mind, but in fact there are plenty who are not certain of that. Even prominent neuroscientists, such as Sir John Eccles, a Nobel prizewinner, believe that we are never going to understand mind through neuronal activity. All I can say is what I have observed from my work. It seems that when consciousness shuts down in death, psyche, or soul – by which I don't mean ghosts, I mean your individual self – persists for a least those hours before you are resuscitated. From which we might justifiably begin to conclude that the brain is acting as an intermediary to manifest your idea of soul or self but it may not be the source or originator of it… I think that the evidence is beginning to suggest that we should keep open our minds to the possibility that memory, while obviously a scientific entity of some kind – I'm not saying it is magic or anything like that – is not neuronal." This is truly fascinating and makes my heart jump with gleeful joy!! Science and religion are rapidly merging as vital entities for social progress Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-09 07:02, irossall wrote: Interesting thoughts Iven, thank you for sharing them ".....but the mind is the power of the human spirit. Spirit is the lamp; mind is the light which shines from the lamp. Spirit is the tree, and the mind is the fruit. Mind is the perfection of the spirit and is its essential quality, as the sun’s rays are the essential necessity of the sun." - Abdu'l- Baha Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Quote:
Interesting, but I'm not sure how a mind can exist independently of a brain. If that's the case, then why aren't we experiencing our normal mental lives when our brains are altered under anesthesia? Surely an "independent" mind would not be affected by the state of our body/consciousness under anesthesia, no? And why does nobody have any memory of before their birth (pre-brain)? Apparently, there is a direct causal connection between brain and mind. No brain, or defective brain, or short-circuited brain (via anesthesia), equals no mind. Well, wait a minute there. The mind, as described by Doctor Parnia, exists independently of the brain. Let us say that it has a locus in another dimension. However, when that mind takes bodily form, in this material dimension, it expresses itself through the brain and nervous system. Our experience of the material world is mediated by our bodies. Think of the body, the brain, as a radio receiver. If the receiver is altered or damaged, the quality of the reception will change, but at the source of the broadcast, nothing has changed. It is only the manifestation of consciousness that is impaired, not consciousness itself. As to anesthesia, there are numerous accounts, as mentioned above, of consciousness, often disembodied consciousness, during anesthesia. And as to why most people have no memories of consciousness before this birth, that's another question altogether. Although some people do remember that period, and also previous lifetimes. |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-09 05:34, mastermindreader wrote: Fair enough.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-09 06:50, R.S. wrote: I actually do have memories of before my birth, although I don't think it's really what you mean, because clearly, at that time, I had a brain. I distinctly recall my mother's voice, singing, when there was nothing else of which I was aware. I have no doubt, that this is a memory from the womb. This is fascinating stuff - I've believed for many years that consciousness is not confined to the body. There are so many threads of research - for instance, did you know that Humans have two "brains"? One of the neat ideas that scientists have come up with, to understand "near death" experiences - is to place pictures on top of cupboards in the rooms of patients who they're trying to resuscitate. If the patient claims to have experienced "floating above their own body", they may be able to describe the pictures atop the cupboards, if this happened for real. I love this! It's at once almost absurd, but shows just how seriously scientists take the claims of near-death experiences, etc. Personally, I'm much more aligned to "believe it all, until proven otherwise", a bit like "innocent until proven guilty". ;) |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
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On 2013-04-09 05:42, landmark wrote: How you feel when you watch a sunset reflected on a pond is probably not entirely understandable in terms of the shape of the pond or the chemistry of water.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
What if this leads to a plague of locus?
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-09 14:16, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Not what I was thinking of, Magnus: http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl......nd-brain |
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