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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Jesus sleeps with the fish?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Quote:
But back to my analogy. A gun store owner knows that it is illegal to sell a firearm to a felon. A commercial seller of a firearm is already required to make an instant background check before transferring a firearm. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
He said, "I come not to bring peace, but with a sword."
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-17 05:43, Woland wrote: The key phrase is "commercial seller." And the law you refer to is federal. Not all legal sellers of guns are federally licensed. For example, the law doesn't apply to so-called "private" sales made at gun shows or over the Internet. Are you suggesting those sales should remain exempt from the background check requirement? Are you also opposed to the proposed restrictions on interstate trafficking and straw buyers? But more relevant- why isn't the pro gun lobby decrying the present requirements if background checks are such a bad idea? |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-17 05:44, Woland wrote: Quoted out of context, the statement seems more controversial than it actually is. Quote:
"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34), part of the Lesser Commission, is one of the controversial statements reported of Jesus in the Bible. The saying has been interpreted in several ways. Its main significance is that it is often offered as evidence that Jesus advocated violence—a view that is repugnant to many branches of Christianity, such as the peace churches. Many Christians believe that the sword is a metaphor for ideological conflict and that Jesus is not advocating physical violence, especially since he talks of division in a family immediately after, and because in a parallel passage found in Luke 12:51 virtually identical to it, the word "sword" is replaced with "division". Also notethat the Celtic Book of Kells, an illuminated manuscript copy of the Gospels, uses the word “gaudium” meaning “joy” rather than “gladium,” which means “sword” -- rendering the verse in translation: “I came not [only] to bring peace, but joy.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/But_to_bring_a_sword#Context In any event, isolated quotes from varying translations of the Bible can be used to support virtually ANY proposition. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Peace is not what you think it means: When they say peace what they mean is death. It's what they get after they have killed everyone. RIP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtK-QCiD-FE
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Hi Bob,
Do you think a background check should be required before you loan a firearm to your wife, son, or brother? |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-17 07:33, mastermindreader wrote: Lets put this to rest. Where is there a legal licensed seller able to sell a firearm without a background check? Under what circumstances can this take place? I do not believe there are any. You keep referring to purchasing a gun on the internet. Have you ever tried to do this? If you purchase from a licensed dealer you must register the firearm and have a background check and your firearm must be shipped to another dealer not to your residence. If purchased from a private individual, I am quite sure it is illegal to do so without going through a licensed dealer to transfer ownership and have the firearm shipped to him from seller to purchaser. As a private individual you cannot legally send firearms intrastate. Go to a firearms site and try to purchase a firearm from an individual and not use a dealer to aid in your transaction and 99.99% of the time they will tell you "NO WAY". The others are what we call criminals. Laws do not matter to them. I may be wrong but I believe shipping firearms intrastate to non licensed locations is illegal and punishable by law. I am quite sure an individual cannot sell a firearm legally on the internet and send it intrastate to another private party (not a dealer). Legally being the key word here. Using the word "seller" confuses the issue as it is used interchangeable with a licensed dealer. There is a big difference and there is a big difference in the laws for both. It is not legal to purchase a gun at a gun show without a background check if purchased from a dealer. So give it up conveying the idea that at a gun show people can purchase firearms from dealers with no background check. It is just not true. It is not the dealers we should be after to harass with more laws. It is the private individual that needs laws stiff enough to prevent them from doing so. Make the punishment to severe to warrant the risk among individuals. Of course you are not going to stop criminals no matter what...because they are criminals. It seems that many here just because they are anti gun want more red tape for the law abiding citizen. The law abiding citizens have enough hoops to jump through now. There are all kinds of forms to be filled out when purchasing a firearm from a licensed dealer, then the background check. No such thing when purchasing from an individual in most instances. So where is the problem? It is the private sales of firearms between individuals not purchasing from a licensed dealer. All many of you here want to do is pass laws to make yourself feel as if you are doing something. Doing something just for the sake of doing something is nonsense...have a legitimate reason and you will get people to agree with you on both sides of the fence. Otherwise you are just muddying the water and harassing the law abiding citizen while the criminal sits back and laughs. I say sits back and laughs...because, do you believe that more laws are going to make the criminal follow such laws?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
http://www.thestar.com/news/investigatio......red.html
"Armslist.com hosts over 73,000 ads for firearms, and 94 per cent of them are offered by private sellers not required to conduct background checks, according to Mayors Against Illegal Guns."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Please read this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/Support......qid=1118
It should clear up many misconceptions. Individuals cannot legally ship firearms intrastate to other individuals. End of story.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2013-04-17 09:53, Woland wrote: No I don't. And the bill presently being discussed specifically exempts those transactions from the background check requirement. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Acesover-
Please reread my post. I wrote: "The key phrase is "commercial seller." And the law you refer to is federal. Not all legal sellers of guns are federally licensed." To which you responded: "Where is there a legal licensed seller able to sell a firearm without a background check? Under what circumstances can this take place? I do not believe there are any." The facts, as outlined in my post- Not all legal sellers of guns are licensed. Also refer to Balducci's post. In case you missed it: Quote:
"Armslist.com hosts over 73,000 ads for firearms, and 94 per cent of them are offered by private sellers not required to conduct background checks, according to Mayors Against Illegal Guns." And the tired argument that criminals won't obey laws anyway isn't even applicable in to the background check law. It applies to the SELLERS, and it's purpose is to help keep guns out of criminal hands. Of course it is not a hundred percent guarantee, but nothing in this life is. You might as well say that drivers' licenses are meaningless because unlicensed drivers will drive anyway. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Hi Bob,
Quote:
And the bill presently being discussed specifically exempts those transactions from the background check requirement. Of course since the "bill presently being discussed" hasn't gone through the usual committee process, I'm not sure that you or I really know what's in it - which is part for this administration's course. It may be more of a problem than you think. Quote:
To see how the Bloomberg bill makes felons of people who do not sell guns, consider a woman who buys a rifle when she is 25 years old. She keeps the rifle her entire life. Yet over her lifetime, she — like most gun owners — engages in dozens of firearms “transfers.” She brings the unloaded rifle to a friend’s house, for instance, because the friend is thinking of buying a gun and wants to learn more about guns. The friend handles the rifle for a few minutes before handing it back. Another time, the woman lends the gun to her niece, who takes it on a camping trip for the weekend. |
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-13 17:34, mastermindreader wrote: Where was the upset of the smear campaign of Sarah Palin? The media skewered her so badly that to date her most infamous quote is, "And I can see Russia from my house." Something SHE didn't even say. Where was the upset over the smear campaign of Lt. Col. Allen West in Florida? Oh right. I forgot, if the GOP even mentions a black Democrat it's racism. But if Democrats smear a black Republican, that's just politics and is totally acceptable. |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Well, as we all know, every violent criminal is part of a vast underground (yet highly organized and efficient) network with ties to black market gun runners. Because of this tangible and well proven fact, attempting to prevent criminals from purchasing guns through legal channels won't deter a single one from purchasing a single gun, ever.
Also, attempting to prevent criminals from purchasing guns is a hugely evil thing because every law abiding citizen will fail a background check and have their guns taken away. I'd also like to know how an animal as large as a buffalo can fly with such small wings?
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-17 09:06, tommy wrote: I'm certain there are people out there who think ''peace'' means; ''Death to everyone who disagrees with me.'' However, it's is less certain that everyone who uses the word ''peace'' means it in that context.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I am certain that I said they.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-17 14:17, mastermindreader wrote: You are twisting the facts. Everyone is a legal seller until they break the law. You (Bob) do not have a license to sell firearms. However you can sell them legally and have them transported intrastate if you obey the law. That law is using a federal licensed dealer to receive said weapon and then transfer it to the purchaser. If you do not do this you break the law. Licensed dealers do this for a fee. That now makes you a legal seller of a firearm. However if you just ship it to me at my home address you have broken the law. At a gun show it is a different matter. Individuals have the right at this time to sell to other individuals without doing a background check. However as a law abiding citizen I would never sell someone a gun and leave it in my name. Would you? Criminals do it all the time. CRIMINALS the key word here. People who break the law are criminals. More laws are not going to deter them. Also as an private individual and not licensed dealers we do not have access to the facilities of doing a background check. That is why one should go through a licensed dealer when selling a firearm. When someone sells a firearm at a gun show to another individual the gun is still registered to the person who sold it. This alone should disturb the average law abiding citizen...but not the criminal. All they really have to do to make it perfectly legitimate is go to a dealer table and let the dealer run the background check for a fee. I totally agree with background checks for purchasing a gun. But enforcing it with individual sales is the problem. Honestly I do not see what the issue is here. The laws are in place but people avoid them and quite frankly there is no way to stop someone from selling their firearm to another individual without running it through a federal licensed dealer. When you can solve that issue you will solve 95% of the problem of guns getting into the hands of criminals. Until then good luck.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Aces- You wrote:
Quote:
I totally agree with background checks for purchasing a gun. But enforcing it with individual sales is the problem. Honestly I do not see what the issue is here. The laws are in place but people avoid them and quite frankly there is no way to stop someone from selling their firearm to another individual without running it through a federal licensed dealer. When you can solve that issue you will solve 95% of the problem of guns getting into the hands of criminals. Until then good luck. Well I agree with you completely here. The problem is a difficult one and the question is whether it is better to try to do SOMETHING rather than concluding that the issue shouldn't even be debated and voted on in Congress. (NOT saying you are suggesting that, but that is the position some seem to have taken.) But is anyone seriously suggesting that people should be allowed to privately sell firearms to complete strangers on places like Craig's List or via classified ads in magazines, etc.? |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
It's somewhat different here in England than what is being proposed over there in the USA and somewhat worse than we have it seems to me. The gun seller here can not check or ask if you have a criminal record, all he does is ask to see your gun licence. If you have one that is it. The licence to sell or buy a gun is issued by the police. You can not apply for a licence for five years after serving a prison sentence. Least that is how it was last I heard. Laws do change constantly.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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