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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
PARENTS who fail to vaccinate their children should face barriers to enrolling them in school and childcare centres, the Australian Medical Association says.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/australian......18581985
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
The whole vaccination thing is very interesting to me. As a parent I hesitated but then went ahead, as I feared that it would make school entrance and the like more difficult. The call for mandatory vaccination generally revolves around the concept of herd immunity; so that even if you have some qualms about the effectiveness of a vaccine for your particular child, there is peer pressure to get the vaccination for the good of the community. Recently, however, I've heard some arguments that claim that herd immunity is not a valid concept when it comes to vaccinations. Anyone know more about this? I'm willing to be swayed either way.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Good for the Australian Medical Association. No reason those parents should be allowed to put the rest of the population at risk of a pandemic.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-13 14:10, landmark wrote: Shouldn't this have been posted in the "You're Banned" thread? JUST KIDDING! (well, maybe not <grinning>) But Landmark, while I'm not sure of your age, I sense you know NYC. I was born and raised in Queens. I think you live in Manhattan, but could be wrong. Perhaps you were reared there too? If I remember correctly, I had to be vaccinated for smallpox before being enrolled in public school kindergarten in NYC in 1951. Not a bad thing. But I do share your concern about the herd mentality. And I don't particularly like to be told I have to do something to get something. Then there was the polio scare and the Salk vaccine in the early to mid fifties. We were innoculated in public schools at no cost. Then came the Sabine sugar cube oral method, we did that one too I guess back then, no one thought to say "no" and I don't remember any outcry from folks complaining about the public vaccinations. But they were different times too. So while I share your concern about being told I must do A to get B, public health is important too and I'll err on this issue to be told what to do, as much as that goes against my grain.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Incidentally, an unknown tens of millions of people who received the first Salk polio vaccine were simultaneously inadvertently innoculated with SV-40, a simian virus which contaminated the initial batches. SV-40 is a monkey vaccine that is latent in normal speciments, but causes problems if the monkeys become immunosuprresed, and causes cancer in rodents. Apparently no ill effects in people, though . . . .
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Kevin Connolly Inner circle New Jersey 1329 Posts |
Don't forget the Tine Test too.
Please visit my website.
www.houdinihimself.com Always looking buy or trade for original Houdini, Hardeen and escape artist items. I'm interested in books, pitchbooks and ephemera. Email [email]hhoudini@optonline.net[/email] |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
The moral of the story is don't send your kids to school in Australia.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-13 14:10, landmark wrote: I'm not sure what you are getting at here. The notion of herd immunity comes from the speed at which a disease spreads. In general, you can work out what is called the "basic reproductive rate" of a disease. (R0--the 0 is supposed to be subscript, but I don't know if I can do that here). R0 tells you the average number of people that will become infected through contact with an infections person carrying the disease. If R0<1 the disease dies faster than it spreads will die out in the population, and if R0>1 the disease will spread faster than it dies and stay alive in the population. Every time you give a vaccination to someone, R0 drops slightly in the population. If you vaccination enough people, R0 will get to be less than zero and the disease will die out on its own. This is "herd immunity"--the nature of the herd is what leads to the end of the disease--for the time being at least. Some people have tried to exploit herd immunity by letting everyone else immunize their kids so that when our herd is immune, their kids will be safe. This may be the fallacy you are thinking of. Just because the disease will not get a long-term foothold in your herd, it doesn't mean that no one will get it in the meantime. While the herd is safe, your child may still get the disease. John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Here is one typical claim found on anti-vaccination site, to give you an idea of what I am talking about:
"It is clear that those throwing around the term “herd immunity” to scare parents and citizens haven’t done their homework. The term “herd immunity” was coined in an American Journal of Epidemiology” article printed in 1933 and refers to immunity derived from NATURAL infection – not a vaccine. Since 1933, only one trial has been performed to test the theory of vaccine-induced “herd immunity.” This 2010 trial, claiming “experimental proof,” encompassed only the influenza vaccine and made no claims to any vaccine induced long term immunity. Translation: the myth of herd immunity has NEVER been applied to childhood vaccines. Ever. Making the claim that non-vaccinated children are parasites, piggy backing on the immunity of vaccinated children is absurd. Even more concerning is the admission that vaccinated individuals may indeed be a health risk to the unvaccinated (as well as the vaccinated) population. In a CDC presentation, the agency states: “The (small pox) vaccine can cause complications for those around them. People who get the vaccine will shed virus particles through vesicles on their skin and possibly through their respiratory tract. Infections in close and not-so-close contacts can ensue. The current plan to vaccinate first responders has the potential to cause infection in the most vulnerable section of the population, the hospitalized ill. Family contacts are also susceptible.” [iii] This is true for ANY live virus vaccine such as Influenza (Intranasal Mist), Measles, Mumps, Polio (Oral vaccine), Rubella, Varicella (Chickenpox), and Herpes Zoster (Shingles)." http://vaxtruth.org/2012/05/measles-mumps-and-zombies-oh-my/ Obviously not a scientific site in any way, so I was wondering if there was any science to back up these claims of the impossibility of a population to gain herd immunity from vaccinations.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
That is bizarre, Landmark. How about polio?
Here's a 2005 article from the Lancet [quote]Background Decisions about the use of killed oral cholera vaccines, which confer moderate levels of direct protection to vaccinees, can depend on whether the vaccines also provide indirect (herd) protection when high levels of vaccine coverage are attained. We reanalysed data from a field trial in Bangladesh to ascertain whether there is evidence of indirect protection from killed oral cholera vaccines. Methods We analysed the first year of surveillance data from a placebo-controlled trial of B subunit-killed whole-cell and killed whole-cell-only oral cholera vaccines in children and adult women in Bangladesh. We calculated whether there was an inverse, monotonic trend for the relation between the level of vaccine coverage in a residential cluster and the incidence of cholera in individual vaccine recipients or placebo recipients residing in the cluster after controlling for potential confounding variables. Findings Vaccine coverage of the targeted population ranged from 4% to 65%. Incidence rates of cholera among placebo recipients were inversely related to levels of vaccine coverage (7·01 cases per 1000 in the lowest quintile of coverage vs 1·47 cases per 1000 in the highest quintile; p<0·0001 for trend). Receipt of vaccine by an individual and the level of vaccine coverage of the individual's cluster were independently related to a reduced risk of cholera. Moreover, after adjustment for the level of vaccine coverage of the cluster, vaccine protective efficacy remained significant (55% [95% CI 41—66], p<0·0001). Interpretation In addition to providing direct protection to vaccine recipients, killed oral cholera vaccines confer significant herd protection to neighbouring non-vaccinated individuals. Use of these vaccines could have a major effect on the burden of cholera in endemic settings.[/url] Of course, this doesn't directly put the "one trial" claim to the test. Epidemiologists don't seem to have any trouble with the concept (I learned it from an epidemiologist and a mathematical biologist when we built some educational materials together a few years ago.) Maybe it's like global warming, and I've been caught up in a giant conspiracy. *** I hate when that happens!
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
It is also clear that the recent anti-vaccination craze is associated with a marked increase in the number of cases of disease which had become extremely rare.
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Perhaps the increase in rare diseases is due to the Kangaroo or Vegemite in their diet which to me are two more good reasons to not send your children to Australian schools.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
All your children are being sent to China.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
OMG now they will all get bird flu.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
A big part of the recent anti-vaccination scare comes from a combination of the falsified "research" of a criminal with an agenda and the increased effectiveness of diagnostic tools for autism spectrum disorders making it appear that there's been a drastic increase in occurence.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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psychod Loyal user I may not be a millionaire but at least I have 244 Posts |
I am concerned with people often confusing cause and effect...especially when dealing with immunizations. There are still some people who feel that shots cause autism. Their argument is that they noticed signs of autism at the same time they were immunized (they also refer to a study which has since been proven to have been done very poorly). The fact is that many of the behaviors associated with the autism spectrum disorders occur at about the same age as when children receive a series of shots (linked together in time). Therefore, the causation between these two events may be fairly high. However, this does not imply that one caused the other. As an example, most people first heard of AIDS when Ronald Regan was the president. The correlation between the two events was rather high. However, that does not mean that the fact that Ronald Regan was president caused AIDS. This is the fallacy that I often hear with people being opposed to immunizations.
Certainly there are some risks with immunizations and some people have suffered serious side effects. However, when you look at the serious amount of problems that were prevented by immunizations, I feel that they far outweigh the negative side effects. Just my 3 cents, Dave
Just adding my 3 cents worth because anybody can add their 2 cents worth...
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Said the vaccination salesman in China.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Dave, you're downplaying. The studies weren't just poorly done. Andrew Wakefield is a lying criminal. That's the very simple truth.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Critter
The whole thing is about how blaming the government for everything, and anything has become so popular these days.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
In fact, with children having died during the disease outbreaks that his lies caused... you can guess the rest of my opinion on Andrew Wakefield.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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