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General_Magician
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In response to Danny's post. I am not a cop, so what do I know? I had a friend of mine who was a cop and he told me the police can legally lie to you when talking to you, but they can't lie on the witness stand during a trial as that is perjury and against the law. Lies are by their very nature, deceptive, which lying to a suspect outside of court or a trial during an investigation to get the truth out of them is sometimes what must be done to help an investigation along. Now, a lie, doesn't exactly strike anybody as honest. But it's not an idealistic world we live in and sometimes deceptive means are necessary to gather evidence and prosecute criminals.

From what I am reading and what I have been told, police use deceptive means to obtain evidence in order to prosecute criminals. I am not judging the cops, to me, the use of deception just comes with the job and is necessary to do the job well. Mind you, I am talking about the use of police deception that courts deem as legal to be used while investigating crime.

I personally don't see anything wrong with the use of deception because it is a tool to be used to get the job done successfully, so long as the courts deem it as legal. Now, that is not to say that I think a cop should just go around and build a reputation for being liar, but you have to also do your job and get the criminal when you are a cop. That's what you get paid to do and sometimes that might mean using legally acceptable (permissible) means of deception to do so. That doesn't make the cop a dishonest person necessarily as he has a job to do and the world is not a black and white place.

I certainly don't think a cop should use any sort of deception to gather evidence that a court would throw out because those means were unacceptable to a court as that would endanger the case the State is trying to make against a criminal. So, sometimes you might have no choice but to use deceptive means to gather evidence and make a successful case against a criminal in court and that would mean sometimes using deceptive means to gather evidence that a court would deem acceptable and legal. A cop's job is to make cases for the state, it is not always to be everybody's friend. That doesn't mean be an dirt bag that everybody hates, but a cop also has a job to do.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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General_Magician
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But also think about it this way, if cops were not allowed to legally lie to you or use legally permissible deception at times, I imagine their would be ALOT of unsolved and unprosecuted crimes. People in many cases just aren't going to come clean with the truth because they are looking out for number 1 and they know that coming clean would get them into serious trouble. So they won't in many cases. It's a "me" world we live in that is not always black and white. So the cops would have to use deception or lie during an interrogation to trick the suspect into telling the truth when he otherwise would not. But of course, the cops would only be allowed to use deceptive means that a court would deem legal to use and use those means in such a way as not to endanger the State's case.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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tommy
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I wonder if his father is the eleventh son of the Gypsy leader Kuric.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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landmark
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Quote:
On 2013-04-28 09:53, Woland wrote:
John Yoo had some comments

Who's your next reference, Augusto Pinochet? Yoo should be in prison as one of the main architects of the torture policies of the last two administrations.
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From the way Lobo talked, it sounds like he must have seen or heard about a few cases where cops perjured themselves on the witness stand while being grilled by a defense attorney.


In NYC we call what the police do on the witness stand, "testilying."
General_Magician
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I found this comic from Burney Law Firm on their blog:

http://burneylawfirm.com/blog/2010/06/18......ant-lie/
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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tommy
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It has been confirmed Sunil Tripathi who was wrongly linked last week to the Boston Marathon bombings after suspect photos released by the FBI had some speculating one of the men resembled the missing 22-year-old has been found dead.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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mastermindreader
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Yes. That was confirmed four days ago. Your point?
LobowolfXXX
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Tsarnaev starts with T and has 8 letters...Tripathi starts with T and has 8 letters...
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
tommy
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The point is it will be five days tomorrow and a pentagram is a five pointed star. Five was the sacred number of the Pythagoreans, and members of the brotherhood were sworn to secrecy regarding it on pain of death. We know the secrets existed only because they leaked out.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Woland
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Hi landmark, well at least you didn't write "You should be in prison . . . ."
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Only if you're not Muslim and or wearing a hijab.

Yoo, as we might remember, was the lawyer who famously agreed that the President may legally order the torture of somebody, including crushing the testicles of the person's child, and no law can stop him.
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The Man from UNCLE

Allegations that money was laundered through the purchase of Sunninghill first emerged during a legal battle between Mukhtar Ablyazov, a Kazakh billionaire, and BTA Bank, which he formerly ran. The bank is now owned by the Kazakh state, which claims that Ablyazov embezzled up to several billion dollars. BTA is pursuing him through the British courts, which have frozen Ablyazov’s assets...

A statement by Ruslan Zaindi Tsarni, a US lawyer who has had dealings in Kazakh business affairs, was given in the High Court in December. He claimed that Kulibayev bought Sunninghill and properties in Mayfair with $96m (£59m), which derived from a complex series of deals allegedly intended to disguise money laundering.

He alleged that the money came from the takeover of a western company, which had been used as a front to obtain oil contracts from the Kazakh state. Kulibayev’s legal team have dismissed the claims.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news......1056.ece


I wonder if his father is the eleventh son of the Gypsy leader Kuric.

Sunil - Sunninghill Hmmmm

Not to mention the $6 billion man.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2013-04-28 22:12, General_Magician wrote:
But also think about it this way, if cops were not allowed to legally lie to you or use legally permissible deception at times, I imagine their would be ALOT of unsolved and unprosecuted crimes. People in many cases just aren't going to come clean with the truth because they are looking out for number 1 and they know that coming clean would get them into serious trouble. So they won't in many cases. It's a "me" world we live in that is not always black and white. So the cops would have to use deception or lie during an interrogation to trick the suspect into telling the truth when he otherwise would not. But of course, the cops would only be allowed to use deceptive means that a court would deem legal to use and use those means in such a way as not to endanger the State's case.


Yes it is clear you are not a cop or attorney. Pseudo intellectual babble aside.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
General_Magician
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Dannydoyle wrote:

Yes it is clear you are not a cop or attorney. Pseudo intellectual babble aside.


Well, I hope it's clear. I wouldn't call what I said as "pseduo intellectual babble" though. It's just the way things are. Cops lie at times to get the evidence so that they can make cases. I am not saying that the way they do it is breaking the law though. That's what the taxpayers pay you to do. Make cases and put criminals away and sometimes that means the use of legally permissible deception to gather the evidence. Also are you saying that what this law firm's website has put out is BS? Are they putting out BS information? Is that what you are saying? Or are you saying they are not a law firm, because if they are not but are advertising themselves as one, I am sure they are committing a crime. I posted a comic from the firm's blog. Anyway, I thought you might enjoy this one from youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN7pkFNEg5c&feature=related

I love the part in the video when the cops say "how long we been doing this? 20 years." As if people think they can outsmart cops who have been doing this for 20 years and the cops catch them and put them away. Very naive thinking on some people's part.
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Dannydoyle
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You seem to have just discovered that a guy who rapes and murders just might stoop to telling a lie about it.

And yea it is pseudo intellectual babble. Having an opi ion and reading Google is not a substitute for information.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
David Marcus
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Quote:
On 2013-04-28 16:17, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Who is this chick Miranda again?

And why is she telling everyone to keep quiet for their own good?

Smile

Ernesto Arturo Miranda (March 9, 1941 – January 31, 1976) was a laborer whose conviction on kidnapping, rape, and armed robbery charges based on his confession under police interrogation was set aside in the landmark U.S. Supreme Court case (Miranda v. Arizona), which ruled that criminal suspects must be informed of their right against self-incrimination and their right to consult with an attorney prior to questioning by police. This warning is known as a Miranda warning.

After the Supreme Court decision set aside Miranda's initial conviction, the state of Arizona retried him. At the second trial, with his confession excluded from evidence, he was again convicted.


Although I think you're probably just being a smartass rather than seriously asking, here's a good article on the origins of the Miranda Law:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto_Miranda
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LobowolfXXX
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A real slimeball who met a fitting end.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
General_Magician
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Quote:
On 2013-04-29 11:46, LobowolfXXX wrote:
A real slimeball who met a fitting end.


You sound like you might have been a prosecutor at one time or are a prosecutor Smile.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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balducci
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I'm not trying to be a smartass Smile just mentioning a couple of things at your posted link that caught my attention.

Quote:
On 2013-04-29 11:28, David Marcus wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-04-28 16:17, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Who is this chick Miranda again?

And why is she telling everyone to keep quiet for their own good?

Smile

Ernesto Arturo Miranda (March 9, 1941 – January 31, 1976) was a laborer whose conviction on kidnapping, rape, and armed robbery charges based on his confession under police interrogation was set aside in the landmark U.S. Supreme Court case (Miranda v. Arizona), which ruled that criminal suspects must be informed of their right against self-incrimination and their right to consult with an attorney prior to questioning by police. This warning is known as a Miranda warning.

After the Supreme Court decision set aside Miranda's initial conviction, the state of Arizona retried him. At the second trial, with his confession excluded from evidence, he was again convicted.

Although I think you're probably just being a smartass rather than seriously asking, here's a good article on the origins of the Miranda Law:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto_Miranda

"At the second trial, his confession was not introduced into evidence, but he was convicted again on testimony given by his estranged de facto wife, but only after he sued for custody of their daughter."

"Miranda was paroled in 1972. After his release, he started selling autographed Miranda warning cards for $1.50."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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