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ralphs007 Inner circle 1087 Posts |
Last night when I was practicing, I dropped my Johnson's Silver Peace Dollar [ on a hardwood floor. I almost had a stoke when my [ was bent and my coins would get stuck. This is only a Johnson gaff, but I was still upset. If this had been a high end [ I probably would have dropped dead.
I did fix it by rolling it on a dish towel with a wooden dowel inside the [. It took me almost an hour to get it right. I don't think I can be trusted with a more expensive coin gaff. From now on I'll only practice on the carpet. Has anybody here ever wrecked a coin gaff buy dropping it ? And if so what was the gaff you broke.
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him".
James D. Miles |
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Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3014 Posts |
I dropped a Schoolcraft shell once on hardwood. Got it fixed but I learned my lesson. I'm very careful when I handle my coins and keep them over the table or make sure I'm on a rug.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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Jac -dutch- Regular user The Netherlands, 175 Posts |
I have almost the same experience like Ralphs. I received my triception-coin. I opened the package and played for a moment with the coin. And unfortunly happend: the coin drops on the hard wood floor: the shell pinched and the 'band' was broken. So in the first hour I have to fixed it all for 5 min fun!
My lesson: I 'm carefully with coins, specially my new Van Dockums silver coins (and triception-coin!) BTW: I learn from Eric Jones how to unpinch the shell. Just with a silk over the coin and than push the shell over the coin. I 'm greatfull for that tip! |
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george1953 Inner circle Mallorca (Spain) 5943 Posts |
I once put a coin unique in a vending machine by mistake !!!
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
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vampiro Loyal user Atlanta 240 Posts |
I recently received a used Johnson half dollar shell. It looks as good as it can. I'm sorry, but
it doesn't really get better than this; spectators do not watch magic tricks with a microscope. So I agree with you, why pay a fortune for something the spectator and, to me, even I couldn't see and care about. But to each his own. I can afford it, but why? |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
I think you answered your own questions as best it could be answered - to each his own.
When speaking of the differences between, say, 1964 Kennedy shell and clad ones, admittedly, there's not a great deal of difference to the spectator, but as you progress backwards to older halves and then silver dollars, and then to different effects made possible because of the precision involved in the crafting of them, things change. So, not only are we dealing with much more expensive coins, but most of the gaffers who produce coin gaffs with them are the hi-end gaffers. For me, personally, many of these coins are incredibly lovely, interesting, many times impressive to the spectator, and made with such precision that performing with them is a great pleasure for both me and those I perform for. Extreme precision may not mean a lot in some areas. Often, a shell is a shell. Just perfect. I've got lots of clad stuff. A Johnson Shell is great... But it certainly can get better - like a shell that provides complete coverage, so much so that you can show both sides of the coin to a spec whose eyes are just inches away! For examples of these are Lassen's TWIAD, C/S/B, and Chinese Bit. We can accomplish miracles with any of them, but sometimes the miracles can be a little more interesting, a little bit more baffling, or more beautiful because of the (more expensive) coins and effects used/made by the hi-end gaffers. So, all that was part answer, part ramble
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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BanzaiMagic Inner circle 1339 Posts |
I recently had the pleasure of attending a Nathan Kranzo performance where he did his signature coin routine using a spectacular Lassen Silver Dollar shell set. It was very instructive to me, because I'm used to seeing coin routines on video or very close to the performer (demos at conventions) or performing with these coins myself. I had forgotten how beautiful a perfectly matched, gleaming set of silver coins can be in the hands of a real coin man to the audience. It's good to be a live spectator on occasion because video is just not the same thing. Sure, having a beautiful Lassen set is vanity and self indulgence to some extent, but I can attest that real silver coins add a whole new level of beauty and intrigue to a professional performance. The coins won't make a clumsy performance good, but after seeing Nate, I am convinced they will make a great performance better.
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J-Mac Inner circle Ridley Park, PA 5338 Posts |
The expensive gaffs are for those who can afford them and like them just because they are nice. You don’t need an expensive gaff to perform most any coin magic. (Other than effects or routines designed specifically for those gaffs). An experienced coin magician can do the effects with clad or silver coins... or even with steel washers.
Jim |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-19 15:24, J-Mac wrote: - It is much more than that, IMO. - No, But there are times when the expensive gaffs do the job more smoothly, or deceptively, or beautifully, or with unique coins. So I believe it is more than a case of just because people like and can afford them.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Bambu Elite user California 498 Posts |
Todd's UWC and China bit coins are a work of art. This coins allows incredible effects that just can't be reproduced using regular or out of the mill gaff coins.
The Peek Project $22.50
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vj3x8le41j2pvnz/Peek%20Project%20Promo%20.jpg?dl=0 Third Eye Peek $20 https://www.dropbox.com/s/2qsp0xn057mpgwm/3rd%20Eye%20Cover.jpg?dl=0 Ad your email address when ordering |
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bowers Inner circle Oakboro N.C. 7024 Posts |
It doesn't have to be a expensive coin.
But it works better if its from a quality craftsman.Take for inatance lassens commercial line. Todd |
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BanzaiMagic Inner circle 1339 Posts |
I'm telling you guys, if you see a professional performance with shiny real silver Lassen coins "under the lights" you would see what I'm talking about. The difference is spectacular. If you doubt me take a look at some of Luis Piedrahita's coin videos. It's not like being there in person, but the lighting and camera work really shows off his beautiful Lassen coins. Now, if you're busking, big shiny washers are fine - and clad coins are OK for table hopping or for less formal settings, but for a real stand up performance, there is nothing else like those beautiful silver coins.
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J-Mac Inner circle Ridley Park, PA 5338 Posts |
Alan: You honestly don’t think that Luis's performances would look as amazing with clad coins? I do!
Mark: Like I said, effects which are designed for specific gaffs, which sounds like what you are saying. Chess: I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Thanks, Jim |
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BanzaiMagic Inner circle 1339 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-19 23:14, J-Mac wrote: They would look amazing, yes. But I still think his performance is improved by the Lassen coins. It's not just the Silver or the shine, it's the way the Ramsay stack and all of the matching coins look so pristine and identical. It's the way the Morgan China Bit looks so incredibly substantial - antique yet brilliant uncirculated (that is a numistmatic term but I don't think it could ever describe a clad coin, at least not by me) with a natural luster that could only come from being in a bank bag ever since it left the mint. Incidently, Luis agrees. He purportedly would not perform certain routines until Lassen would make the coins for him. In person, though, with the lights on the coins, they literally dazzle. This is not to diminish the skill of Nate Kranzo, but seeing those beautifully matched coins appear and dissapear with natural flashes of light just wouldn't look the same done with clad coins. It was more noticeable than I had thought it would be - and this was just from his routine. He did not bring them out later after he performed (probably thought one of us scruffy magicians would take one!) so I never saw them up close. That was just my impression from the routine. Alan |
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vampiro Loyal user Atlanta 240 Posts |
I don't really understand all the hype about silver. I think I know precious metals fairly well. I was, for 20+ years, a high-end jeweler and know that silver is the low level, low lustre metal among precious metals. Silver is virtually not used in fine jewelry, because of its lack of durability, its excessive softness, and its terrible luster. I refused to work in it (I only used it in model making), and only put diamonds in the metals with great qualities, like gold or platinum. Silver on its own, tends to be dull with a very poor lustre. If silver is shiny, then it almost has to be recently polished or even plated. If nickel clad coins are cleaned, they look brilliant as well. I also don't mind silver coins, but would rather use coins that spectators are familiar with. But older silver coins are fine as well.
Oh, by the way, any well made shell can be shown on both sides inches from the spectator, including Johnsons. If the coins are displayed too slowly or are put in the spotlight for too long, this is possibly a symptom of magicians "showing off" a gimmick, and sharp spectators often pick up on this. If you try to prove something too much, it is similar to child psychology and you have something to hide. To me, though, it does not make sense paying hundreds of dollars for "soft" silver coins. A soft coin often starts with a messed up coin that has been polished to make all of the details, including flaws, fairly indistinct. Ask a coin dealer what it is worth. Yes, surprise. Often these are worth no more than the scrap value in silver--almost nothing. It seems the magic community, to me, has been hoodwinked a bit. I am making my own coins, partly because nobody offers them. For instance, a popular new coin is like a split/shell coin, but one of the parts is too thin, so I have developed a "Slick Willie" which has the advantage of shells and of the other features, without having a super thin coin. So people have different motives for what they do. I am not claiming to be better and I also respect things well made. I just find that in the area of coins, magic is behind. Why should we still be using rubber bands in flippers? Hello, there are much more durable options. To be honest, I am a bit weird and would rather manufacture my own coin designs that others don't make. So I do respect all well made coin gaffs, and those who appreciate them. We all have different effects and coins, and gaffs, and that is what makes magic so special, and impossible for youtube kids to reveal. How can they, with all the creative people we have in magic, and in coin magic. So let's celebrate our differences, and help each other out. |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
I never thought the hype was about silver - though I have to admit, I like silver very much, in jewelry as in coins.
Additionally, there are shells out there that eclipse the Johnson shells. My Johnson shells are perfectly acceptable - to a point, and this point is perfectly acceptable in many situations. But for that bit of extra deception, they simply cannot compare with, for example, the Lassen Infinity Edge shells, such as in his C/S/B. There simply is no comparison. I definitely agree to celebrate all that is out there. Far be it from me to deride an excellent tool as the Johnson shell. But even more deceptive is out there. Of course, there are those out there who can make more with a Johnson set-up than others with a more hi-end gaff set. So there are definitely variables. Are the high-end gaffs necessary for success? Of course not! Do they offer extra possibilities and flexibility, at times? I certainly believe they do.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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BanzaiMagic Inner circle 1339 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-20 00:57, vampiro wrote: I agree with you there - especially here in Florida. Thankfully, Mark Mason and Bob Swadling have done just that. I only wish other manufacturers would consider going the same direction (with permission or license or with a different method, of course). |
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J-Mac Inner circle Ridley Park, PA 5338 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-20 02:11, BanzaiMagic wrote: Actually Joe Mogar has had flippers using the exact same "more durable option" for sale long before Mark & Bob's NGF. They're made by Kreis Magic to the best of my knowledge. Check it out at Joe's web site: http://www.joemogar.com/ They are about a quarter of the way down the page - Morgans. Thanks! Jim |
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ralphs007 Inner circle 1087 Posts |
[/quote]
Actually Joe Mogar has had flippers using the exact same "more durable option" for sale long before Mark & Bob's NGF. They're made by Kreis Magic to the best of my knowledge. Check it out at Joe's web site: http://www.joemogar.com/ They are about a quarter of the way down the page - Morgans. Thanks! Jim [/quote] Hi Jim I just called Joe and asked if he had a Silver Peace dollar gravity flipper. He said no and he only has them in Morgans. I'm looking for a Peace Dollar flipper. Johnson's doesn't make one, so I don't know where I'm going to get one yet. I do like how this coin is made, and I would have jumped on it in a heartbeat had he made it in a Peace dollars . I'm looking to treat myself to a Flipper coin but only after I perfect " Mirage Et Tois by Eric Jones". To be honest, I though Eric used a flipper coin in this routine! I could get some Morgan Dollars from my sister, but I like the looks of the Peace Dollars better. I know I'm in the minority here but to each his own. Plus, I just thing the girl on the Peace dollar is Hotter! ;0)
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him".
James D. Miles |
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vampiro Loyal user Atlanta 240 Posts |
Hi Ralphs,
Maybe we need to do a post on who is most in love with the girl on their coins. We could have a coin beauty contest. By the way, a name for a new set of coins should be the "slickbama" coin set. It would be a new deceptive kind of coin set, based on the same principles that got a president who never worked a real job day in their life into the presidency. By the way, there is no license or patent on other way more durable options for a replacement for the rubber band for the flipper coin. |
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