Hi all

I have searched the forum but couldn't quite find exactly what I was looking for, which is as follows:

I am a performer of close up magic, but would like to do a mentalism effect for some coworkers. I would like to do an impossible prediction. In essence a prediction of a scientific result. Ideally something of the form of a prediction which can be sealed but in view at all times. I would like to know what you would recommend in terms of the cleanest/easiest way/product for achieving this, as I am relatively unfamiliar with mentalism techniques. I am not looking for revelation of methods, but perhaps a pointer as to what I should look into/consider. I work with a very clever (and cynical) bunch of people so you may bear that in mind!

Thanks in advance

What's your budget?

Great question!

When performing for a group of skeptics, whether informally or on stage, your best best is to build from plausible demonstrations to more impossible ones.

If they are truly cynical then even the most deceptive effects will not convince them of anything. Start with something simple yet plausible then build from there.

It is often said that prediction effects are among the most difficult to present convincingly. It is a sentiment with which I fully agree.

My best advice to you is to have a real think about what you are trying to convey. Are you telling them that you can genuinely peer into the future? As stated before, that's a real tough sell for even experienced mentalists. Figure out what you want others to ultimately believe about your abilities and only then decide on specific effects.

Thanks for the replies.

Firstly, budget, I'd say I'd probably be willing to spend up to $150 perhaps on something if it's worth the money and not a 'one time' thing.

Steven - agree totally with you're reasoning about building up. Example of the old 'too perfect' principle. They are familiar with my close up magic, and are properly fooled by that, so the suspension of belief already has a leg up from that I guess.

I wouldn't say I was genuinely trying to convince them of some kind of clairvoyant ability. I try and live by Paul Harris' ethos of instilling a 'moment of astonishment'. For people who are usually very logical and cynical, when you get that reaction, it seems to be amplified as they are so unused to something that can't be subject to reason. I guess this is why I am looking for the 'cleanest' version - something they can't see a way out of. I feel that if it is clean enough, it is then up to me to present it so as to do it justice. I also think that the subject of the prediction is such that it has a slight 'mysticism' about it which will help the effect. I don't think I particularly want to convince them of something about my abilities, more that there is something truly unusual happening.

Impossible Envelope- Paul Stockman

What is the point of doing mentalism if you don't want to project abilities?

Mindpro I thinks he's going for a more mental magic type thing

PM'd

That's what it seemed. More like a magician doing a mental-based effect.

There was a simple Ted Lesley headline prediction published in a set of 2003 lecture notes that can be presented as either mental magic (as Mr. Lesley did) or as mentalism. The Glass Box is very similar. There are so many answers we could say, "Just start buying books and stuff and you'll soon find something you like." So many good methods to choose from.

Nothing wrong with mental magic, only be prepared for people asking, "how did he do that? Did he switch envelopes?", etc. Compare that with people asking, "does that guy have some sort of precognitive ability? I wonder how often he's right?"

If the crowd has already seen you do four-ace tricks and sandwich effects you're probably not going to get the latter reaction. If you're perceived as a trickster you're going to get a weaker reaction than if folks wonder if you're really doing it. Steven Keyl's post above is worth re-reading. Precognition is a hard ability to sell. What if instead you make them believe you can control the outcome? Better yet, what if you really can control it? I only do two prediction effects, and in both cases I really do cause the outcome to happen under "test conditions". My favorite way to predict an outcome is to make it happen. Of course, when performing for certain crowds (local magicians for example) they won't believe even if you actually make a real prediction. Case in point: I predict a close run-in with a snake in the next 48 hours. When it comes true I'll be accused of trickery. And of planting the snake.

Too much mentalism talk. I just hit my limit. Going to watch a movie and live Friday night life. When I hit my equilibrium I'll return. Gotta' find that Drambuie...

I would try the "Invisible Deck" (much below the mentioned budget) and/or MD of Promystic (which might be beyond the mentioned budget).
You can build a very nice routine with either one.
Good luck.

Thanks for the suggestions all.

Mickym: I have an ID, and know exactly what MD is, but neither fit the bill here. I specifically want to predict a particular scientific quantity, it would be much too contrived to derive that from a deck of cards or die.

Mike: Thanks for PMs. My worry with the glass box is that it requires significant audience management. Whilst I'm not averse to it, it's just an extra risk factor.

Ulises: That looks very clean, and, given the price, certainly looks worth a look!

Mindpro: The reasons I don't want to project some kind of clairvoyant ability are thus: 1. In general it doesn't wash with a 'headline prediction' type effect - "why not predict the lottery?". 2. The audience is familiar with me doing close up magic. 3. The audience isn't the type to buy the idea of 'real' clairvoyance.

Swest,
"I specifically want to predict a particular scientific quantity," that statement tends to infer that they don't think you could do such a thing. This leads me to suggest two options. You force the outcome or you switch in the solution once it has been arrived at. I am guessing if your group are science-savvy then they will know if you forced them to arrive at a solution you already knew, so switching in a hitherto unknown formula or result will blow them away.

I am leaning towards suggesting a crystal casket style switch or if you can enrol the assistance of a confederate then a last minute add-on or add-in is the answer.
PM me for a better description.

Thanks dusty. I agree with you, and yes there is no way that I could predict (not accurately). Forcing the outcome is not an option unfortunately, and would be in rather bad taste, as I would then have to reveal it was forced and tell them the 'real' answer. I would like to restrict my investigation to something not using a stooge, at least to begin with, so will look into a crystal casket.

Swest,

I have sent you a PM.

Best,

Atlas

Brian brushwood is making an effort to expose the ID so watch out. He may soon destroy a great effect that he didn't create !!! Masked Magician wanna be !!!

Since the topic has been raised, I thought I'd share a video of a recent performance that employed a prediction.

I often perform at a smaller local venue as it allows me to test and perfect material before rolling it out elsewhere. The MC at the place is so thoughtful and considerate to everyone that I thought I'd create a moment specifically for him.

He was shaking after the show and doesn't want to see me again:

http://youtu.be/DDtYMbBzrT4

Best,

Atlas

Atlas, that was beautiful!

I agree as well, Atlas man that was such a great effect.