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Slartibartfaust Loyal user Canada 213 Posts |
I know I am a newb here so my opinion may not carry much weight but, The trailer for this is exactly the type of thing I have always hated in effect hype (how many times have you gone by ad copy when purchasing an effect only to find out that it was outright lie?)granted it was just as bad if not worse in the days before video trailers etc. but that is no excuse.
The "lie" in the edit is obvious and egregious, there is no way that should ever been released as an ad for the effect, it is dishonest. That said I agree and I doubt the creator is at fault, and it is a shame because without this trailer the effect would have stood on it's own merit and I think for the price it is perfectly fine. This certainly makes me not trust the vendor that is also a shame.
There is much wonder in the Great White North
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Slartibartfaust Loyal user Canada 213 Posts |
I want to add one point an even bigger shame is, that by using that cut at the 37 second point they completely and totally removed all doubt in regards to method and turned a possibly great routine and explanation into an obvious mess. The illusion is good. This has ruined it.
just my 2 loonies
There is much wonder in the Great White North
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JamieD Inner circle London 1798 Posts |
Looks pretty cool to me! Simple, visual and what it says on the tin! Ill definitely be trying it on laypeople before I wright it off! Good going Alex!
Jamie Daws
TORCE - VMRS - DARK SERIES
www.JAMIEDAWS.CO.UK |
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Myke Phillips Inner circle Myke Phillips 1213 Posts |
I am not supporting any false advertisement but I will support Alex 100%. The demo is honest to point that you get multiple full performances to watch. The bit with the coin in the glass shouldn't have been in the demo as it may be misleading, but it is a positive because if you show the coin in the glass at the start of the routine then proceed with the effect, it can only add to the effect.
Another thing I won't support is people like Vulgarian watching demos, figuring out how it's done and making bad performance videos to show everyone that he is clever. If you have watched this bad performance video of Vulgarian, can you imagine this guy coming to your table and performing magic to you. This guy is a forum troll, he only joined here to bash Alex, yeah he can tell us what tricks he thinks are good or bad but when it comes down to what's workable you can't take this guys advice. This is not cool at all and so disrespectful to the creator. Again, I am not supporting or condoning any false advertise. Myke |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Ok here is a quick summary
1) the effect is cool and not designed for a magician fooler but a public target audience and priced low as it isn't to start a religion 2) the video editing is misleading with the shot of the coin in the glass in the middle of shooting - many state this 3) the video is aimed at magicians not public and it appears 99% of us watching it were given an idea an figured out how we think it was done (oh for those asking if a borrowed coin could work - I dunno but I know I can make it work) - ie that vid was almost an instructional video IF YOU ARE A MAGICIAN IMHO - and thus even with the editing objected to most understood the truth anyway - not that it makes the editing attempt right as it can be very misleading 4) for those of you who never thought this up or considered it before the video but now are using it and tinkering with it - do you consider you should pay Alex for the idea? All in all, a great learning experience. Can I suggest people stop swearing and accusing each other.... Please? The main issues were all agreed upon and now it's devolving into character assassination.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Ustaad Inner circle Iindia - States 6157 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-28 08:49, Dr Spektor wrote: Yes.
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke. |
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Danny Kazam Inner circle 1516 Posts |
I agree.
I have learned the effect, and I'm willing to pay Alex the nine dollars when I get reimbersed by E. I was in the middle of editing my last post before Ustaad's, but wasn't able to. Apologizes for the grammar screw up and repeat sentence. My last part of my post should of read more like, " It's a shame to hear that Alex had worked so hard on this effect that uses a simple enough application that some other magicians can easily pick out. The price for it is very fair. And a fair representation of it's worth.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
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JamieD Inner circle London 1798 Posts |
Im not trying to be a hero, not trying to continue an argument and certainly not trying to stop people from expressing their feelings. But I feel I should remind everyone that not too long ago we all received a message from Steve Brooks. Entitled "The Words We Choose". Please go and check your messages and read through it. Its absolutely awful and sad. But after reading threads like this, it doesn't surprise me much.
False and misleading advertising isn't cool but neither is chowing down on an individual behind a screen. It genuinely makes me feel sad to be a magician at times like this. Its fine for everyone to have an opinion and state their case but its really not nice to let things get out of hand and say/ do things that could hurt someone. Alex released an effect. Im certain he had no say about how the trailer was produced as many who have released effects through a production company will know. As for him defending the actions of Ellusionist and his effect, that's totally normal! We all defend things that arn't possibly worthy of defence because we feel passionate about it. It doesn't make it right but it doesn't make it wrong either. All I am trying to get at is please just think about what is being said and being done. Ellusionist is a large corporate company with resources to cope with complaints along this line, send them the messages directly to help come up with a solution. Just please show compassion to each other. Life is too short and we are too small of a community to be virtually punching each other. Simply my feelings on the thread. Jamie Daws
TORCE - VMRS - DARK SERIES
www.JAMIEDAWS.CO.UK |
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smullins Special user United States 678 Posts |
If you make a trailer showing the whole effect done well... people get upset because they can back track it.
If you make a trailer now showing the sneaky part... people get upset and call it false advertising. Darned if you darned if you don't if you ask me. Personally, Alex, I think it looks nice and I think it is a nice effect to toss out to the fraternity. Good job Alex. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-28 19:24, smullins wrote: That's a bit of a false dichotomy. While there are many instances where a full performance will not be best for the obvious reasons, however, one can still edit a trailer which, while not showing the whole performance, is still not "deceptive." I'm putting "deceptive" in quotes as there are many ways in which advertising, and magic, can, and are, deceptive, without being considered less than admirable advertising practices. Juxtaposition is HUGE in editing. What you show, and WHEN are key in the matter of inaccurately portraying magic in an advertisement. For example, showing the side shot in the trailer, with a coin clearly inside of the glass, on it's own, would not inherently be bad, nor good. Used as an "artistic" shot, it would be fine. On the other hand, showing the shot in the middle of a performance sequence, immediately after showing a shot of the "placement" of the coin in the glass, AND showing the hand reaching up to extract the coin, then cutting to a different angle, continuing the same action, directly into the extraction moment, is clearly, and intentionally, misleading. Obviously, during a performance, perhaps in a more structured routine, one could put the coin in the glass like that, and show it, and, as it is a visual representation of what is being suggested in the effect, simply showing the shot on it's own is not an un-admirable move in advertising. It becomes a shot without direct context. However, showing it in an explicit context of performance, as in this trailer, it is clearly a "deceptive" in a way which is hugely frowned upon. Obviously one could have shot a performance in such a way that you DID show the coin actually in the glass like that, then perhaps panned to an audience, or cut to them, as one example, then back to the performer, having, off camera, done the necessary work. Although this might still be frowned upon, it is at least accurately representative of what will be seen in reality. In other words, there are ways to, in a non-negatively "deceptive" way, edit around misdirection, if you will. As opposed to showing things in away which misrepresents what you are selling. None of the above is meant as an attack on Alex, especially as I imagine he was not the one directing and editing this project, nor is it an "attack" on ellusionist. It is simply a critique/commentary on marketing and editing tactics used in magic, and, in this case, by in the trailer in question, which are, as made apparent by the populace, frowned upon in magic. As a general rule, in a free market, customers vote with their dollar. When a company does something which its customers do not like, then customers are free to, and will, spend less with them. Now, that's not to say I am advocating such in this case, I'd hate to see Alex's sales suffer; However, as we are fortunate, in today's world, to have the direct communication via places like this, AND, a (relatively speaking) small industry, thus smaller, more reachable companies, ellusionist can easily see, and respond/react too feedback like this, and thus learn what their customer base prefers. They can have an even more direct line to specific feedback, rather than just "this sold, this didn't," and are thus able to learn from the market for more quickly, and effectively, allowing them to perhaps strive for something better with their marketing. Not saying that they will, just that they have the opportunity, and the ability, to do so, and be a better company for it, as well as make magic better for it.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Stucky Inner circle I'm Batman! 1355 Posts |
Some effects don't NEED to be released like this. Remember when little things like this were gems hidden in lecture notes or magic magazines? not 20-30$ one effect dvds? We are creating a generation of "magicians" who can barely perform, live off products they invented last week, and think this is how magic is done and made. Other will rise above obviously but it's just getting worse before it gets better.
Official Thread Killer
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-28 20:10, Stucky wrote: Um, but this one was not $20-$30.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Stucky Inner circle I'm Batman! 1355 Posts |
That was a blanket statement in general.
Official Thread Killer
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JamesH New user 23 Posts |
My favourite social situations are when nobody has any idea I'm a magician. I'll steer the conversation in the right direction then hit them with a carefully chosen, seemingly impromptu little miracle. IMHO its the best way to perform and experience magic.
So anyway, I watched the CTG video on Ellusionist and thought, that's perfect for me. I'd worked the method out instantly, based on the fact that it couldn't have been done any other way. The "cut" did make me smile but didn't put me off. So I got the download for the real work behind the effect and Alex does a great job of explaining every aspect of that in an entertaining way. Ironically, when I performed it I put the coin inside the glass, casually allowing them to see "that" view of the coin then tipped it back out to get the last few drops of liquid out before placing the coin back in. The reaction I got was pure amazement. The only downside was the question that followed. "Can you put my phone in this bottle?" to which I gave my standard reply, "No, because we're not on a TV show and you're not an actor pretending to be a member of the public" Alex, thank you for my Jesus like powers. Sorry to see you get the now standard Café treatment, it's a great effect and I look forward to your next offering as long as its not a haunted pack or self levitation. PS JamieD, you ARE my hero |
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Spackle666 Loyal user 234 Posts |
Alex, good luck to you. I am sorry you're offering to the community has received such a negative response. Best to just learn from it and move on.
"it's bad luck to be superstitious."
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alexwardmagic New user 14 Posts |
James H, thank you. Someone who actually brought it, learnt it, practiced it, performed it. Glad you got some great reactions!!!
Best to you 😀 |
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davidleiper Regular user 124 Posts |
Alex, James is certainly not the only one. I bought this too and really enjoyed the instruction. It's been added to a coin routine that I already perform and got great reaction at a birthday yesterday. So for £6 I've got a visual effect that I will continue to use.
Cheers Dave. |
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alexwardmagic New user 14 Posts |
Nice one Dave 😀
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Rabid Elite user 495 Posts |
Great job Alex...I think your effect looks tops...I'll be picking it up in the near future.
Steph |
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brookwaters New user 1 Post |
As Alex said this is a magic effect, that's it. It's cheap, something you can always use and more importantly it's the PERFORMANCE and ACT that is more important. I can make any card you wish appear out of my pocket, deck of cards, etc.... using anything from sleight of hand to a gimmicked deck of whatever, but the build-up and performance of the act is 100 times more important!
Alex gives you advice on performance and obviously the lay out of the trick. It is 9 bucks for God's sack... I have spent hundreds of dollars on stuff that was a rip off or not worth is, but here you have an effect you can use forever and it DOES work!!! Don't do it again and again and again to the same people, but done in a pub, round a dinner table, etc... people are in shock. Great work Alex! |
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