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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Over the past few weeks I've noticed this happening more and more around here and at other places. Seems like every magician is now attempting or adding "some mentlaism" to their magic show.
It is seeming to me that mentalism is digressing and is being seen as just another type of magic, just like coins, ropes, cards, rabbits, doves, silks, sponge balls and now...mentalism. It seems like the true essence of mentalism is being completely lost and is being reduced to nothing but the latest "trend". After a couple of the other current posts going on here, combined with so many "magicians" posting here that have never been any where near here before, and the running off of many members of the longtime mentalism community has really made me wonder if this is what it's come to? Yet even with this new crop of "magicians adding mentalism" not a single thought or mention of disclaimers or not, implied abilities, and not one claiming any type of abilities. The entire essence of mentalism seems lost. I imagine most won't even understand this post. |
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Do you find this to be new?
Many of magic books from when I was a kid had mentalism section.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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Billy-one Inner circle IOWA 1028 Posts |
I don't get it.
Billy |
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kannon Inner circle BCN 1025 Posts |
My work and the Mtangulizi here http://kannonsworks.weebly.com featuring work on drawing duplications, a fiddle-free billet tear, bar mentalism, pendulums
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Slartibartfaust Loyal user Canada 213 Posts |
Mindpro
You seem to be over reacting, is mentalism only for the "elite"? Forgive me if I misinterpret but that is how it comes off.
There is much wonder in the Great White North
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts |
Mindpro,
It is disturbing, but not surprising. Something I find even more interesting on a personal level is my own return to a deep love, admiration and respect for the classics of magic. I've been worn out on both traditional and contemporary mentalism for quite awhile now. I don't think I can stomach watching another Magic Square, book test, drawing dupe, spoon bending, PK Touch, BF routine or S&S (etc) to save my life! Given the choice between watching yet *another* copy cat mentalist perform the same 6-7 routines that 99.9% of them do or a skilled close up guy/stage-magic artist, I'll happily go with the magician any day of the week. Though I no longer perform the classics of magic (or even work as a "mentalist" for the most part!) I've found a renewed interest and intense appreciation for cards, coins, cups and balls, sponge balls, linking rings, rope and silk work, levitations and so on. A good magician these days is much harder to find than a BAD MENTALIST (which are plentiful in numbers and growing rapidly!). Call me crazy, J
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Slartibartfaust Loyal user Canada 213 Posts |
You do realize how elitist you sound correct? You feel "mentalism" is special, and I will grant it is both a powerful and my favorite branch of magic long before any trend. That said, you insult many of your fellow performers with the attitude that this branch of effect/performance is superior and due some sort of separation
it isn't. Remind yourself that despite your persona you really aren't psychic and a worker just like everyone else. My 2 loonies worth S
There is much wonder in the Great White North
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tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1787 Posts |
I believe there to be many great & horrible of both if you look for it you can find either. But what we see as typical effects I believe we need to understand that to layman nothing is typical. The average audience has never seen a mentalist or magician live.
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
Doesn't this also allow the truly good performers to shine above the rest? Performers will come and go and ultimately the public / market place will choose what they like best. I'm not sure how productive it is worrying about it. Mind you, I admit, I'm more concerned about putting on a great show for my clients/audience than about the fate of a classification of entertainment.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-27 16:04, Jerome Finley wrote: You are exactly right which is one of the by products of exactly what I'm, talking about. Time and time again it is only ever magician's with magician's thinking that ever comes up with the "elite" perspective and way of thinking when it comes to mentalists and mentalism. Jerome is one of the great mentalist minds and I don't consider him or any others "elite". When magician's bring this up it always seem to mean one of three things, they don't see mentalism on another plane as audiences and mentalists do, they somehow feel inferior by mentalism and talk of mentalism theory, or the truly do not get mentalism and only see it as another part of magic, like I described in the original post. Which again leads to newbie posts as witnessed here. This was exactly my point. Just because someone may not get or understand mentalism doesn't make those who do "elite". One of the best posts in the last couple of years was from David Thiel who sincerely tried to break down the differences in mentalities and understanding for magicians and included his own experiences. |
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Slartibartfaust Loyal user Canada 213 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-27 16:24, Scott Burton wrote: You encapsulate my thoughts better than I did I was a bit reactionary thank you. S Posted: Apr 27, 2013 4:33pm Mindpro doesn't get newbie posts? You have zero indication of who, or indeed what I am. You really have an attitude problem when you say "understand mentalism" it is not your personal playground, you do not own it. So let us get off the high horse. You are not a "special snowflake" no matter what you have been told. S
There is much wonder in the Great White North
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
I think I get what he's saying, and to me it doesn't sound "elitist". I'm a writer - I've done short and long fiction, newspaper op eds and community interest articles, and I currently do technical writing. I once worked with someone with a Masters in English, specializing in 18th Century British Lit. She was probably good at it -- but not much better than a passable tech writer.
I'm a family and children's magician, specializing in birthday shows, stand-up family gatherings, and so forth. I do have a few "mental magic" tricks in my arsenal, but the presentation is obviously just another trick. I am attempting to create a second personna for "real" mentalism. I do understand that it won't fit with my current character and performance style. Right now, I can pull off "mind reading tricks". I'd never put myself up next to y'all. I've seen some peformance videos, and I know the methods. But I also see that the audience is not responding to the trick, but to the complete atmosphere created by the performer in which no mind is safe. I hope I can do that too one of these days. But it is a very different world. Well, if you're going to get away from the latest Sankey and do it right, it is. Otherwise, it's just another trick. That's not elitist, in my opinion - it's just real. Ed |
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Slartibartfaust Loyal user Canada 213 Posts |
That was an honest and well thought out response Ed.
Thank you S
There is much wonder in the Great White North
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Hey slarti, why so angry? every one is entitled to their opinion, and mindpro has never used the term elitist in any way... it is merely your reaction to the words you are reading in your head...
re-read his posts in this thread in a tone of someone who loves mentalism and magic, knows the differences and is worried/annoyed/fed up with how things are going (in his opinion).. coming in all guns blazing isn't the way forward... and everyone should aim to be that "special snowflake" - unique, and falls only 'here'.... which by the way, is what all snowflakes are anyway...
I've asked to be banned
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Slartibartfaust Loyal user Canada 213 Posts |
Good point IAIN and I take it to heart. I suppose from lurking here for so long I just kind of took it wrong.
Mindpro, I do see your point to an extent and I apologize if I was overreaching BUT all avenues are open to all that seek them. That was kinda my point S
There is much wonder in the Great White North
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
I've had the pleasure of speaking with MindPro in the past so I tend to read his posts in his "voice" as I imagine it. He is not being dis-respectful. Rather, he is speaking from the heart. It may sound differently to those who do not know him (thus is the nature of forums). To me, he is one of the nicest and more supportive guys in this corner of the Café.
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-27 16:41, IAIN wrote: Love you, IAIN! Cue "Fight Club" soundtrack, J.
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Slartibartfaust Loyal user Canada 213 Posts |
I was rude. I apologize. But it bothers me when one branch of performer holds itself above others. I now see this wasn't the case and I regret being so volatile.
I will still say though, all is for all that learn. S
There is much wonder in the Great White North
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-27 16:54, Slartibartfaust wrote: Very classy thing to do. Hope that I didn't make it sound like I was tearing you down (comments were of a general nature). Sounds like we are of similar perspective. |
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-27 16:49, Scott Burton wrote: Agreed! He's also a real working pro, walks the talk and remains passionate about something we *ALL* should love, value and hold near and dear to our hearts. It's discouraging to see something (ANYTHING!) you really care about being trivialized, dragged through the mud, belittled, ***ized, taken for granted, not approached with sincerity, understanding & experience, taken for a "fad" or "trend", added to the *list* of things some care nothing about and have ZERO respect or knowledge for, etc. I get where he's coming from and he's correct in his feelings...nothing "elite" about it. This *IS* what its come to, and it's sad. My opinion, J.
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