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Bulla
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I just want to entertain them. Make them laugh and have a good time. The same experience you would get from watching an amazing juggler or a dance act or any other skill based performance art.
Bulla
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On 2013-08-05 19:09, tomsk192 wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-05 19:06, Pop Haydn wrote:
May I ask, Bulla, what is in it for your audience, other than the opportunity to admire you and your skill? What is it that you want to give them?

Would a pianist perform with the idea that he wants the audience to appreciate the time and work and practice that went into his work?



As a professional pianist for over 20 years, emphatically "no".


That may not be what you're going for, but on a much more subtler subconscious level, people can relate to how difficult playing a musical instrument and do appreciate the skill involved.
tomsk192
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Yes they can, but if it's the abiding impression they are left with, then one has failed utterly. We want to move our audiences emotionally, not get a mark out of ten. I leave that to synchronised swimmers.
Pop Haydn
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Very few jugglers are successful on the basis of skill alone. To ask the audience to sit and watch you show off, is also to ask them to be your judges. They will have imaginary 1-10 score cards in their hands. "Okay, kid, show me!" If you impress them, you get a half-hearted applause, "Have to admit, the kid is good." If you don't, they will tear you apart.

Why put yourself into such a lose-lose performing situation?

If you set out to amaze them, make them laugh, tickle them, scare them, make them think, or whatever, and you accomplish it, they will applaud with enthusiasm, "That was great! That was really scary!" "That was great! I never laughed so hard!" The applause from this kind of gift to the audience is much more real and vibrant.

Vernon said about the audience, "They don't want to think it is skill. They don't want to know it took years of practice. That's boring."
Bulla
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Like I said before my goal is to entertain them. When I mentioned juggling I meant a juggler who not only is extremely skillful but one who has a great personality and stage presence. I don't go in with an attitude of look what I can do. I do engage them with comedy and amazement but I just don't focus so much on "magic." What I do is not magic, its entertaining sleight of hand and deception.

I do agree if all you had was skill then yes that would be boring to watch. That's why you create drama and suspense and comedy and interact with the audience and that's exactly what I do.
Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2013-08-05 19:09, tomsk192 wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-05 19:06, Pop Haydn wrote:
May I ask, Bulla, what is in it for your audience, other than the opportunity to admire you and your skill? What is it that you want to give them?

Would a pianist perform with the idea that he wants the audience to appreciate the time and work and practice that went into his work?


As a professional pianist for over 20 years, emphatically "no".


Echoing Tomski here. As a musician, I want my audience to feel the music and get that emotional hook.

As for magic, I entertain them, but, I like to mix a little bit of a serious approach along with comedy. I love some of Robert Neale's and Rick Maue's material which adds dimension. I also do want people to feel they have seen good magic and were entertained by it first. Comedy is great but, I am not primarily a comedian. I am a magician and people pay to be entertained by a magician. Most people have never seen close up magic live; too many associate magic as something for kids, so I try to change that misperception. I want to entertain them and do as Bulla does and any magician should do. I don't do flourishy stuff because I don't want to play the skill bit. I avoid effects that sting the audience. I want them to feel good, to be mystified, and to experience an art form that has gotten a bad rap in recent years.
Jiceh
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On 2013-08-05 18:24, Pop Haydn wrote:
We demonstrate the impossible, and lie about how.

What creates strong magic is getting people to agree to a sophistic argument which convinces them something is true that they know cannot be true. This logical trap is the experience of magic. It leaves people in a reverie of wonder and inductive reason.

We demonstrate the impossible, and lie about how : I like this sentence. Is it yours?

Everybody has experienced something like that : After a DL, you put the "card" in the middle, snap your fingers and show that it has come back to the top. You give them the deck and, curiously, they try to do the trick. Obviously, it doesn't work, but the fact that they try tell us something about what they are thinking (even for a brief instant).
Erdnase27
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Quote:
On 2013-08-05 19:09, Bulla wrote:
I just want to entertain them. Make them laugh and have a good time. The same experience you would get from watching an amazing juggler or a dance act or any other skill based performance art.


If magic has anything more to it then all the other entertainment arts, it is that it also has the ability to astonish them (gambling routines or demonstrations do this aswell btw!). Magic isn't just about entertainment or having a good time. That moment of astonishment, that primal sense of wonder (Paul Harris), that rollercoasting feeling. I mean let's face it. If it is just about entertainment, it wouldn't really matter what art you did. It wouldn't even matter if spectators analyze a trick or not, if it is a good or bad trick, if you present it as a puzzle or not (a puzzler can be as entertaining as a magician) and so on. There must be something more then just having fun underneath all this, or is this really the only reason you chose magic?
Bulla
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I do love all aspects of magic and I respect the art itself. Gambling demonstrations do astonish but for a different reason. When you watch Richard Turner do his gambling act its amazing but not exactly magical. Its astonishing because first of all he's legally blind and his sense of touch and skill is uncanny.

There is nothing wrong with focusing on the magic aspect while performing and there's nothing wrong with not focusing on it. Everyone has different styles and characters and magic, like all performance arts, is an expression of yourself.
Erdnase27
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On 2013-08-06 04:47, Bulla wrote:
I do love all aspects of magic and I respect the art itself. Gambling demonstrations do astonish but for a different reason. When you watch Richard Turner do his gambling act its amazing but not exactly magical. Its astonishing because first of all he's legally blind and his sense of touch and skill is uncanny.

There is nothing wrong with focusing on the magic aspect while performing and there's nothing wrong with not focusing on it. Everyone has different styles and characters and magic, like all performance arts, is an expression of yourself.


I agree 100% with that, although in my experience I do find gambling routines quite magical for lay audiences. This might vary however. Smile
Pop Haydn
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Quote:
On 2013-08-06 05:29, Erdnase27 wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-06 04:47, Bulla wrote:
I do love all aspects of magic and I respect the art itself. Gambling demonstrations do astonish but for a different reason. When you watch Richard Turner do his gambling act its amazing but not exactly magical. Its astonishing because first of all he's legally blind and his sense of touch and skill is uncanny.

There is nothing wrong with focusing on the magic aspect while performing and there's nothing wrong with not focusing on it. Everyone has different styles and characters and magic, like all performance arts, is an expression of yourself.


I agree 100% with that, although in my experience I do find gambling routines quite magical for lay audiences. This might vary however. Smile


What do you mean when you say "magical?"
Erdnase27
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Quote:
On 2013-08-08 14:24, Pop Haydn wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-06 05:29, Erdnase27 wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-06 04:47, Bulla wrote:
I do love all aspects of magic and I respect the art itself. Gambling demonstrations do astonish but for a different reason. When you watch Richard Turner do his gambling act its amazing but not exactly magical. Its astonishing because first of all he's legally blind and his sense of touch and skill is uncanny.

There is nothing wrong with focusing on the magic aspect while performing and there's nothing wrong with not focusing on it. Everyone has different styles and characters and magic, like all performance arts, is an expression of yourself.


I agree 100% with that, although in my experience I do find gambling routines quite magical for lay audiences. This might vary however. Smile


What do you mean when you say "magical?"


Hi Pop,

Good question (!!) but I am not really sure if I can answer it. I don't think I even think it is magical in the "traditional" sense of the word, but in my experience an audience does have that "no way" response or that "total silence' when they witness a good gambling demo. I am not saying they think this is pure magic, but I do think it feels "magical" for them? Does this make any sense? I don't really know how to explain it (maybe also a language barrier).

Kind regards and respect!
Pop Haydn
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Perhaps the right word is impossible. I think some gambling demonstrations, if they are not mere exhibitions of technique for educational purposes, approach the level of impossible levels of skill.

The audience is stunned by skill beyond their level of comprehension.

This is sort of like a faked strongman stunt, or a girl who ties a cherry stem with her tongue, but cheats to do it. It is low-level charlatanry.

That doesn't make it bad, in my opinion. It can be very entertaining and successful way to perform. I think it is the best way to present skill without just "showing off."

But it isn't magic.

To be "Our Magic," they have to know that it isn't real, and have no other possible explanation than the known lie you give them.
Erdnase27
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Thanks for the response Pop Haydn!,

I agree with you whole heartedly. A question: do you think an demonstration or gambling routine/trick for that matter can be taken to such a degree of impossibility that it has "almost" a magical impact/effect on an audience?

Not that it is the same as magic, but that the "magical experience" is more or less the same on the audience.

Kind regards ,

Mic
Pop Haydn
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Well, not exactly. It can create the feeling of the impossible.

I doesn't create the dilemma of magic:

"There is no such thing as magic/There is no other possible explanation."

The experience of Magic relies on the audience knowing it isn't really magic. Otherwise, there would be no dilemma, no magical wonder.

If the audience senses the gambling demonstrator is "cheating"--using other means than he claims--they lose interest in the exhibition, just as they would on finding that the Strong Man used dummy weights.

With the magician, finding out the magician may have cheated isn't a surprise at all. The magician doesn't want credit for his skill or sleight of hand. He wants credit for having created magic. He wants to eliminate even the possibility of skill being used. He wants to create the experience of the "impossible."

If the performer seeks to make the audience actually believe he has "real" psychic powers, or real magic powers, then he is a charlatan, not a magician.
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