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Mindpro
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On 2013-05-06 21:39, Mormo Zine wrote:
Mindpro if you were trying to discourage me from posting in the Tricky Business area you succeeded. I won't start another thread here.


I'm sorry you are missing the point. It's not about discouraging you off, it's about your appearing to offer advice to others that is not as being presented or appears. Don't take it personally. It's the point. This has happened here before with others that were also called out on this. Perhaps you could have prefaced what you said and how you presented it in a better context as I stated in a previous post.

I know you don't hang around here much, which is another reason why your post jumped out as someone new offering such bold sounding advice. I am confident that you could learn a great deal here if you are willing and open minded.

Many here do this for their living or as required income for their family's survival. They are here to progress and improve their business. They take this seriously. Playing for beer is not the mentality of most that come here for information and knowledge. Even some amateurs here typically have an interest of someday performing for profit on some level.

Many people here do not seem to get the fact that when you do something for a living, and have devoted much of your life to your profession, you take pride in protecting the profession, progressing it forward and helping others that may be where you once were. This is their profession and they take it seriously. They are not in it to play. Of course when you are one of these people that are serious it is very off-putting and often offensive when someone who is an armchair performer or at a lesser level of experience and dedication (not meaning you here but anyone in general) attempts to come on here and pass off tinkering, trying or their theory as true knowledge, experience or proficiency.
Dannydoyle
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Ok Tom let me see if typing REALLY slow helps you some. I will type with bigger letters for one sentence to get your attention, not to yell.

IT IS NOT ABOUT COMPETITION. Did you read and understand that sentence? Go back and work through it word by word. Sound them out and look them up if necessary.

A guy making $40 and a few beers is NOT COMPETITION. When you raise it to that level it is just silly of you. Yea I hope this guy writes a book and he can sell the same 12 of them every other wanna be writer you encourage sells.

Tom this is about BAD information being passed off as if it were real information. "Can" you put out a campfire with your face? Well the answer is yes. SHOULD you encourage someone to do so? NO. You do.

You are doing the equivilant of encouraging kids to eat paste, and so forth. I am sure you don't do that. Not for a second. Why would you encourage people with kindness to do things that are just not too bright? Why would you do things to COST THEM MONEY with some misguided idea that somehow it 'helps' them because you are being kind.

Encouraging people to spend time marketing like this takes time away from doing any sort of marketing that will help.

Tom for a magician in this business I must say you run a heck of a daycare facility. Why do you think it is helpful to just encourage every behavior and every scheme and every idea that is put forth here? Why do you want to encourage behavior like paste eating? It does not help. It is not even kind. It is costly.

As for the OP not posting here any more how sad. Seriously. How sad. Having as much to learn as he obviously does it would seem to me posting and asking questions would help him far more than going somewhere propegated with even more people who blow smoke up his but.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Ok Danny, let me too go slow.

Why should Mormo come back here to post and ask questions after the warm welcome he received?

You see Danny all we did was to encourage him to go off somewhere else and act like the "real magicians" do. To be a jerk. He now knows exactly how a true professional needs to act. He has talked to the "experienced" and he understands that you can't be nice to people and be a magician. I'm sure he is saying thanks for the lesson Mindpro and Danny.

Is that the way the encouragement needs to be?

Ever wonder why new people don't post here so much anymore? Ever wonder why so many have left the business section here? Maybe they just didn't like all the encouragement.

Anyway, Mormo is gone. Too late now. It's over. We had our opportunity to set a good example.
Sad that we blew it.


Tom
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Dannydoyle
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Yea Tom he was nothing but nice. Come on.

When you post something like this and then get snarky when people call you on it too bad.

Has it occured to you that people are sick of delusional crap and those who support every idiotic idea to come down the teail kight be why people don't post here any more? Maybe they are sick of the wannabe guru types here peddling nonsense nse and have lost enough time and money on get poor quick schemes.

I am sorry you feel telling the teuth is a bad ezample. YES YOU BLEW IT. Maybe next time you won't encourage a newbie with a horrible idea to write a book on promotion.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Ok, I understand now. Next time a new person comes in, or one of those gru's sticks his head in here, I will beat that joker down until he agrees with us. Ya'll just hold him down and watch me. We will teach him to keep his mouth shut. This disagreement bull needs to go. Yea, I got it.

Can't believe I said that, but yea, I understand how it needs to be.

Tom
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https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/

My eBay Store where I have been a top-rated seller for

twenty-five years selling collectibles & misc items.

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Dannydoyle
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I really hope reading comprehension isn't part of your daycare program Tom.

Nobody said anything of the sort.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kune
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I've read the entire thread, and I personally think everyone has good points.

I understood Tom's main point to be that a very large amount of tact is needed, and once you've built repoire with the person, then it's far easier to guide them onto the right path. Something which I understand, but personally find very hard.

Both Danny and Mindpro have given a great deal of excellent advice, and I'm very impressed at how much of their time they spend trying to nurture the community. Personally I wouldn't be bothered, mostly because of laziness Smile

Finally I think Mormo's post does have value, but it's in the wrong place and needs a slightly different presentation. Maybe something more like "Want to get your chops, while having a lot of fun arranging shows with local bands, and getting a bunch of free drinks while you're at it? Here's how I do it!".
The enphesis being on having a good time while learning, otherwise sooner or later someone new to magic will decide it's a guaranteed way to get rich quick, and take out a morgage on their house or kidneys.
Mindpro
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My points exactly.
Mindpro
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Quote:
Finally I think Mormo's post does have value, but it's in the wrong place and needs a slightly different presentation. Maybe something more like "Want to get your chops, while having a lot of fun arranging shows with local bands, and getting a bunch of free drinks while you're at it? Here's how I do it!".
The enphesis being on having a good time while learning, otherwise sooner or later someone new to magic will decide it's a guaranteed way to get rich quick, and take out a morgage on their house or kidneys.


My points exactly.
Dannydoyle
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If it comes to helping guide people from a bad idea tact isn't my concern.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TonyB2009
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This has been on of the most disappointingly negative pages on this disappointingly negative forum. Magicians knocking magicians.

Mormo proposed a way of getting stage time for those who are at the start of their career. He never said it would make him rich, or that it was where he wanted to end up. He said it was fun and it got him stage time. I have done shows like that with local bands (never as a promoter though) and he is right. It is fun, and it pays beer money.

If it is not for you, just walk away. It is not for me. If you have useful advice, give it. Otherwise grow up and stop the schoolyard bullying.

I am talking specifically about Danny (who is normally better behaved) and Mindpro (who isn't).
Mindpro
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On 2013-05-07 17:13, TonyB2009 wrote:
Mormo proposed a way of getting stage time for those who are at the start of their career..


You are absolutely 100% incorrect. He never said this at all. Not even close. If he did it might have been taken on that level but that not the way it came across, but rahter as someone from a point of authority at the level of professionalism of that of a true Concert Promoter. In reality this is not a concert promoter at all. Perhaps a show or event producer or promoter, but even the term "concert" implies a certain level of proficiency that he or this is not. Nor was the events he referred to. Let's deal in facts here.

"Want to get stage show?" "Be a Concert Promoter". Nowhere in this is it mentioned or even implied that it is for someone at the start of their career seeking some (any) stage time. He's talking about being a promoter for god's sake. That is an advanced level of execution in the entertainment business, and as mentioned one that carries great risk.

Btw thanks for your contribution to "most disappointingly negative pages on this disappointingly negative forum. Magicians knocking magicians". Seems to me that's exactly what you barged in here and did yourself.
TomBoleware
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Mindpro,

Do you really believe that Mormo was trying to pass himself off as some 'high level execution promoter?'

Does a 'high level execution promoter' normally recommend working for a few beers?

Just curious mindpro, but what color make up do you normally wear while doing the high level execution work?

Seriously, I would think that 'anybody' in their right mind could see that this was a "For Fun Idea." Not some new way to make a living. Just a way to get in front of a night club audience as an emcee and have some fun with your magic.

Ok, no need to actually answer, like Danny you have dodged enough answers already. It's clear you got trigger happy and shot the wrong person. But hey, that's what happens when you take the 'shoot first and ask questions later' approach.


Now my last words on the subject, and for the record: I have absolutely nothing against Danny or Mindpro, other than their often over reacting to something like this. There is no question in my mind that both are very good at what they do, and I'm sure both are great people in person.


Until next time, Smile
Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/

My eBay Store where I have been a top-rated seller for

twenty-five years selling collectibles & misc items.

https://www.ebay.com/str/bolewarebargains
Mindpro
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I agree...until the next wanna be comes in here trying to peddle something and pretending to be something he's not and yes, they too will be called out on their s**t. By the way it's interesting that even after he admitted he just posted this for personal gain attempting to get people to his web site to subscribe that every one seems okay with that deception too.
charliecheckers
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Yes I agree with Mindpro on the point that there was an alterior motive in the original post. In addition, I think it is a mistake to read too much into the physical presentation of a person when deciding how professional they are. Mormo is creating a personna and if it works for him, great. I think it would be a mistake for him to show up at such an event dressed much differently. I would be interested in view points on how Mormo might successfully pursue this type of niche market (not that Mormo himself is asking).
Mormo Zine
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Quote:
On 2013-05-07 22:15, charliecheckers wrote:
I would be interested in view points on how Mormo might successfully pursue this type of niche market (not that Mormo himself is asking).


Thank you Charlie. I also would be interested in hearing something positive and constructive instead of being told my life experience is invalid and being called a braggart and liar.
Ours the magic, Ours the power!

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Mormo Zine
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TonyB, just purchased Gili Gili Man. Looking forward to reading it Smile
Ours the magic, Ours the power!

See Mormo's Guide To Psychic Self Defense by clicking here.
Mindpro
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There you go again saying things that were never said and like on the other forum spreading incorrect information and facts. I was just about to offer some advice as I agree with charliecheckers, but forget it. None of my points or statements had anything to do with Mormo's look or image, ever. When you're ready to listen instead of taking so much and for whatever reason having an attitude or chip on your shoulder towards those that would be willing to help you, as Danny said above you might actually learn something here. If not don't expect to get anything more than you already have.
charliecheckers
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Mindpro - just for clarification, I was refering to Tom's comments when I mentioned Mormo's look and image.
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On 2013-05-07 18:23, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-05-07 17:13, TonyB2009 wrote:
Mormo proposed a way of getting stage time for those who are at the start of their career..


You are absolutely 100% incorrect. He never said this at all. Not even close.

Mindpro, if you didn't pick up on that, you are thicker than I thought. Making $40 a night and having fun carries the implication it is at the entry level. Mormo never tried to pass himself off as one of the major players in the concert promotion business.

I have worked like this with a few local bands, and thoroughly enjoyed the evenings. They were not major earners, but they were good nights. At a certain basic level Mormo's method works. It was not intended as a blueprint for making a million.

Mormo, hope you enjoy Gilli Gilli.
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