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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Tricky business Ľ Ľ Pro's & con's of advertising your price (13 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TomBoleware
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Danny, itís not just the price comment. Iím sure I sell more products in a day than you sell in a month. Itís the constant over and over twisting of every little thing I say on here. Why is it so important to you to try and twist and disprove everything I say? You seem to be obsessed with it.

Tom
Today I bent the truth to be kind, and I have no regret, for I am far surer of what is kind than I am of what is true.--Robert Brault

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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And yet your comment is just wrong and you canít admit it. You just canít stop.

I donít care how much junk you sell on Amazon or EBay it is not selling entertainment. Get over yourself.

I admit correcting your posts can be time consuming. But if you would just admit when youíre wrong it would be easier. Stop take a breath and learn instead of just arguing because it is me.

Now put all this personal nonsense in a PM and donít further derail this please. You have taken up a page with silliness.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny, What gives you the right to CORRECT MY POSTS?
Big deal if I am wrong. Itís Just my opinion.
Nobody cares except you. Nobody else is complaining.
If they donít agree, they simply say I do it this way.
I NEVER have a problem with anybody on here except you.
Why is that Danny? Think maybe it could be YOU?

Tom
Today I bent the truth to be kind, and I have no regret, for I am far surer of what is kind than I am of what is true.--Robert Brault

Tom Boleware
https://www.youtube.com/TomsBackyardChats
Dannydoyle
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Tom just stop.

Putting an opinion like you did here costs guys who may not know better money. I donít think that is good.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Tell em to send me the bill for their losses.

The End

Tom
Today I bent the truth to be kind, and I have no regret, for I am far surer of what is kind than I am of what is true.--Robert Brault

Tom Boleware
https://www.youtube.com/TomsBackyardChats
Dannydoyle
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I doubt it will be the last post you make in this thread

Instead is sending you a Bill how about they just donít incur those losses in the first place?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Ok, maybe I can sneak this in here today before Danny gets up.

And all Iíve been trying to say the whole time is this, people hate dealing with a salesperson. And I say this from experience, the best way to be a good salesperson is to not sound like a salesperson. When a parent's first question is Ďhow much do you chargeí it's usually because theyíre wanting to avoid all the sales talk. Itís important to put em at ease from the beginning or else all that will be on their mind is price. Itís all about talking with the parent not talking at them. Allow them time to talk and get them to talk by simply asking questions.

For those that have more than one price, I think it's easier to get around having to talk price before value. By simply saying something like, ďIt depends on which show you want, can you tell me a little about the eventĒ and then you can go on explaining.

Tom
Today I bent the truth to be kind, and I have no regret, for I am far surer of what is kind than I am of what is true.--Robert Brault

Tom Boleware
https://www.youtube.com/TomsBackyardChats
Dannydoyle
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HA! I knew your ego wouldnít let you not post.

Price before value loses money. PERIOD.

People may very well hate talking to you when you are selling. I donít know. You seem to have this experience so Iím not going to correct you. Based on your behavior here and how you insist maybe I see it. If that is your experience then it is valid. You are pretty consistently in this section pushing pushy sales techniques. So again maybe I can see it.

This in no way means others have these issues and in fact quite few I know of do. Pretending everyone has the same shortcomings makes no sense.

You canít universally say people hate talking to salesmen. All you can say factually is they hate talking to you. I donít know this but again you claim it is your experience.

Again look at the numbers Donald provided. A very large percentage are not shopping or more accurately buying on price. Your method converts some of those buying of value into those buying in price. You would know this if you actually sold entertainment or anything in that space.

Selling entertainment of any sort is a different way to do things in some ways. If the first and only question is how much you have made a Possible mistake in how you got them to find you in the first place. Your advertising should be geared to having them excited about learning more and asking buying questions! All you want to do is dig in your heels and scream you are right because you have an opinion. That is expensive for guys.

Every single thing from your business card to the props to the way you dress and tricks you do needs to represent value. Your method of contact should have people excited about thinking you will do something special and unique for their kids. Then they will not be thinking price they are thinking about the kids feeling special on a special day.

Sure that same percentage Donald mentions will still be there but it is far smaller. The thing you seem not to understand is that the ďsaleĒ starts LONG before they call or email you! The perception of your value is already in the works before they call. By the time they call they should be interested in what you have to say and when this happens I GUARANTEE they will listen and dare say they want to listen.

I get it though. Your experience is people hate talking to you. I respect that because this is your actual experience. No harm no foul but you could learn to change this by listening instead of trying to make it true for everyone.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Values unheard are worthless. According to a recent survey from HubSpot Research, only 3% of people consider salespeople to be trustworthy. And if it walks like, talks like or sounds like a salesman it must be a salesman.

Unless itís a repeat customer, parents donít have a clue what a magician charges. Most have never seen a live magic show must less hired one. So price IS a concern, and until the concern is put to rest, the person on the phone, trying to describe values, is nothing but a salesperson. And the salesperson is being mentally shut out.

NO, Iím not saying you should shout out the price in the beginning, but unless the prospect is assured it is reasonably priced and affordable from the get-go, then half your values will never be heard.

True the price thing is often addressed even before they call, most parents will simply talk to other parents to try and find out what they paid. Or they will see it on your website. But those callers wonít ask about the price upfront. Itís the ones that mention price first that you have to be careful with.

That's just me, and I certainly could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Tom
Today I bent the truth to be kind, and I have no regret, for I am far surer of what is kind than I am of what is true.--Robert Brault

Tom Boleware
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Mindpro
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Quote:
On Oct 19, 2021, TomBoleware wrote:
According to a recent survey from HubSpot Research, only 3% of people consider salespeople to be trustworthy. And if it walks like, talks like or sounds like a salesman it must be a salesman.


I'm always amazed by this perception of salespeople. Sales is a part of business. If you aren't making sales, you aren't in business. Especially service-based business which entertainment is.

Sales is such a generalization as you approach selling a widget much differently than selling a service. This is why you Tom comparing your selling on ebay to what we are trying to discuss here in selling live entertainment services are nothing alike at all. More than just Danny have a problem with this here but only a few will express it here in these threads for fear of you jumping all over them as you do Danny.

The reality is sales the way you have described and used in your posts in this thread is mostly inapplicable and outdated especially for selling entertainment.

Sure no one like the type of selling you have in your perceptions of sales, but sales doesn't have to be that way. You can sell without people feeling they are being sold. I sell everyday, but not at all in the way you do nor do I get the results or perception that you seem to.

On the contrary, I and those at my businesses actually get praised and commended by those we are selling to saying how much they appreciate what we've shared with them, how it really helps them to make an informed and confident choice, and ultimately how we are their only real consideration. Yes, you can create the exact and proper positioning you require for your business when doing so properly. They are more than excited to say the least. And even those that choose not to book/purchase our services for one of the three possible reasons, will now use us as the bar from which all others that they will speak to will be compared.

Selling does not have to be feared, dreaded, or sleezy.

Most performers are terrible at selling if that's what you want to call it, I/we prefer "presenting" which takes all the heat off of selling. This is the one skill that alone can make a huge difference in one's business - entertainment business sales is then one thing most performers on all levels seem to need to identify as needing help with the most.

I would like to see much more discussion here on entertainment sales without the derailment of non-entertainment sales or selling. Not theories or opinions that don't apply to performing or entertainment (there are other forums here for that), but more actual experience as Donald, Ken, and others have shared. This is what would truly be productive and helpful to most here.
TomBoleware
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Mindpro,

Selling on ebay is not really selling, thatís marketing.

The sales that I speak about are those selling a product or service direct to another person. Selling a magic show is no different than selling anything else that involves dealing with an individual. People are people regardless of what hat theyíre wearing. Certainly, their needs are different but that doesnít change the fact that for the most part, they think as everybody else does. SALES IS A PEOPLE BUSINESS.

I too would like to see more people take part in the discussions here. But that wonít happen as long as everything is being controlled by one or two people. MOST donít feel welcome here anymore simply because they canít speak freely. A different opinion is always attacked.

Tom
Today I bent the truth to be kind, and I have no regret, for I am far surer of what is kind than I am of what is true.--Robert Brault

Tom Boleware
https://www.youtube.com/TomsBackyardChats
Dannydoyle
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A completely wrong opinion is always corrected. Like I just did there.

Again you speak from experience. Folks hate talking to you. Ok leave it at that. Donít try to improve.

And selling a magic show is vastly different than selling a plumbing service. Maybe your shortcomings in this and why folks hate talking to you is your problem.

Again it is how they find you and why they are calling that matters. But donít bother to learn.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny, what is a wrong opinion? One different than yours?

Tom
Today I bent the truth to be kind, and I have no regret, for I am far surer of what is kind than I am of what is true.--Robert Brault

Tom Boleware
https://www.youtube.com/TomsBackyardChats
danfreed
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Have any of you hired entertainment for your own personal parties? (people you don't know or work with). I have a few times. It's annoying AF if you ask the entertainer a direct question such as price and they go off on a tangent so they can prove value or get clues on your budget, etc etc before they get to price. Yes they often want more info so they can quote you, which is totally fine, but get the info you need and directly answer the question as best you can without a song and dance routine, sale tricks, and a Vulcan mind meld. And no I'm not always looking for a discount or the lowest price anything, so don't go off on that with me. We didn't want or need a $3,000 (or whatever) DJ, it was just one part of the party entertainment, it wasn't a big event, and we didn't think people would dance much, if at all, we didn't care about the bells and whistles. Therefore when talking to them while avoiding quoting us a price, the higher priced ones were wasting their time and ours, while annoying us at the same time. If you are friendly and helpful, respectful and honest, and don't get all Zig Ziglar on people, that should work well most often. You can circle back as prove value etc. And if they really want a $200 magician and you charge $1000, you aren't likely to get the sale, though sometimes they will call you back and book you at your price anyway. Also, there are many ways to effectively skin a cat. I've done sales in various situations and when I tried to sell using my some of my boss's methods, I was less effective.
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Oct 19, 2021, TomBoleware wrote:
Mindpro,

Selling a magic show is no different than selling anything else that involves dealing with an individual.
Tom


This is another example if an incorrect statement, opinion or not. I could easily see why Danny or others would correct you on this.

This is also why the discussions here are much better when they are between people that do or are selling entertainment services. Others simply don not get it or understand.

Many people have taken sales trainings or courses and therefore feel they have had sales experience. When I had my radio station I trained all of our sales reps (Account Executives). Selling air is much different than selling a tangible, physical product. All sales and sales trainings are not the same.

Just here in Tricky Business a few years ago we had a member who was a professional sales representative by trade, yet came here with all of these ideas for selling entertainment based on such conventional sales techniques. I know you PMd him and know the poor general advice you gave him. He too I'm sure found out the hard way that entertainment sales and business are not the same.

Another example from maybe 5 years ago or so was when a member here had an experienced salesman approach him to be his agent. His mentality was the old "I'm a professional sales person, I can sell anything to anybody, I could sell ice to an eskimo." He thought because he was an experienced sales person he could easily sell this member's entertainment services. I immediately told him on the forum my thoughts, how to structure the arrangement if he felt he wanted to try or proceed with it, and how I believed the outcome would be (complete failure). In a very short amount of time exactly what I stated happened in their situation. I speak about this in great detail in my Entertainer's Guide To Working With Agents & Agencies book.

Selling entertainment is completely different than conventional sales - products or services. Anyone that tells you different is uneducated and is not speaking from a true knowledge and understanding of their business or our industry.
Mindpro
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Dan you are correct as I have hired entertainers away from my business for personal events. You have to ask a qualifying question or two casually before you event get to the actual conversation. If done correctly the ones shopping strictly and solely on price will easily be identified. At that point you choose if YOU want to deal with them or not.

This perception that as performers we just jump anytime anyone is interested in us and that we must have this booking is not just crazy, it is poor business.

An agreement for performing services is not just about the prospect's interest as it is a two-way arrangement. You, the performer, has just as much say in whether you WANT or are interested in them, their event, or performing for their event.

It is just as important for you to get the info you need as well as them and their interests. In actuality, it is very easy to get them to listen and want to hear about you more than just price if you know what you're doing and if you truly understand what is happening in this situation. Most performer's don't know how to do this.
TomBoleware
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Iíve hired entertainers many times. For Birthdays and corporate events.

Never a problem really. Like hiring any other service person for me.

But I can see where it could be a problem. I know some I wouldn't hire Smile

There's nothing special about the average entertainer.

Now superstars would be a different story. (None of those here oh)

Tom
Today I bent the truth to be kind, and I have no regret, for I am far surer of what is kind than I am of what is true.--Robert Brault

Tom Boleware
https://www.youtube.com/TomsBackyardChats
Dannydoyle
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No Tom free would work your daycare centers.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Dan you are right. But most if not all those issues are stopped before they start if people know who they are calling and why. I donít get random calls for magicians and when I do I get rid of them fairly quickly.

You are right that when someone calls expecting one thing and gets another the odds of converting them into a sale are small. This is why just getting random people to call is a wasteful practice.

As Iíve tried to explain to Tom, to absolutely no avail, is that how someone finds you and why and where will dictate your prices. If you are just a guy in Gigmasters who folks call for a price none of what I say applies. If you just want to be one of any number of random magicians called based on price then go for it. (Not you specifically Dan.) In that case sure just throw price out there.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Oct 19, 2021, Dannydoyle wrote:
No Tom free would work your daycare centers.



I wasnít talking about the daycares, but yes, you're right I did get some free shows there.

Tom
Today I bent the truth to be kind, and I have no regret, for I am far surer of what is kind than I am of what is true.--Robert Brault

Tom Boleware
https://www.youtube.com/TomsBackyardChats
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