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David Le
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Do you ever use Bicycles when you actually perform your manipulation act for people? Smile

I guess with the exception of manip cards, personally I think Bikes are the best for anything. Not even Bees, although you have an advantage working with Bees because of the absence of white margins.

I guess what I'm saying is, Bikes have white margins --- does this concern any of you manipulators here? Smile

I remember seeing a clip of "someone's hand" in that tv docuspecial for Discovery Channel doing countless backpalm productions with the use of Bikes. The camera was up close and there was no "flash" whatsoever.

Impressive. Smile Smile
Evan Williams
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Well, anybody that practices their heart out could do back palm productions without flashing. It is a matter of practice, and basically your ability as a whole. Also, since you saw it on TV, it may have been the manipulators 100th try getting it perfect for the camera, you can never know on TV.

Since most magicians will want to be able to do it good in person (on stage, live audience), they will want to use Bees. This is because more than likly they WILL have at least a few small flashes during a performance. With bikes, there is a better chance of the audience seeing the cards then with bees due to the white boarder you mentioned.

I personally love bikes for everything, except for manipulation. I guess it "concerns me" because I'm NOT a perfect magician and will flash a few times during my manipulation act Smile .

Evan
David Le
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Me too. Except that I don't have a basic act or routine yet. Smile

Regarding the use of Bikes, I wonder if it helps if the manipulator has pale palms to shield the white margins and the distance of 70 feet from the audience will help (?) Smile

Thought I'd share this with you but, my magician friend criticized a beginner for buying the three McBride videos when he had not anchored himself to the very basic tactics of prestidigitation. And to make things worse, he uses blue backed cards Smile He calls him a r-tard. Smile

Anyway, if anyone wants to share more input to my initial post in this thread, I'll be even happier Smile
djvirtualreality
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I use blue backed cards at home to practice with (bikes that is) For my performances I use red backed bikes. At the distance I stand and the movement of my hands, it's hard to see the cards in bp or in the concealment.
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magic4u02
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Well, if you're performing your manipulation acts on the stage, then you really do not have a problem with using bikes or bees. Keep in mind that stage manipulation is just that.... meant for the stage.

I have used both Bees and Bikes but used Bikes more often as I do cards to jumbo card manipulations. I wanted to be able to show the backs of the smaller cards as well as the jumbo cards. Since the jumbos only come in Bike designs, I was forced to use bikes. It worked out fine for me. It just takes a little bit more practice is all.
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Evan Williams
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Good point Kyle, a shame more card companies do not make jumbos though.

You're right about practice, that's all you can do for most magic especial in any kind of manipulation.

I started thinking about Bikes and Bees, and if it really would make a big difference for me. Last night I prepaired two decks of cards, one Bee and one Bicycle. After prepairing them both the way I do, this morning I took them for a test run. I did the same sequences with both decks. I seem to just like bees better generally. I don't know what it is about it but they just feel more natural for me personally. It's a shame I have to buy Bees for manipulation since I get Bicycles for free Smile .
xxxRoyxxx
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Any rebuttal is appreciated but bikes and bees are essentially the same card, only a different back design. Look closely at your cards, they have the same thickness, the fibers in the card are the same, and aren't they from the same company too???
magic4u02
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Roy:
Bees and Bikes are indeed essentially the same type of card. people just tend to get used to using one over the other. It becomes a pyschological thing.

The best bet is to try both and see what works best for you. With proper practice, both sets can be used to good results.
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Evan Williams
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They are the same type of card, and are both manufactured from US Playing Cards. It is all a matter of preference, and how they feel to you.

It could very well be a pyschological thing with me, but I will never know.

I also have been working with both throughout then morning, and both seem to work ok. Bees feel more "normal" to me, but I could definatly use Bikes if I didn't have Bees available.
magic4u02
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It really is a personal preference type of thing.
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Pete Biro
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For manipulation, back palms, etc. you should use cards MADE FOR THE PURPOSE. Norm Neilsen sells 'em, they are flesh colored on the back. Lance Burton also makes 'em like Norm's.

Juliana Chen has her own cards printed and they are black and white on backs, from one end to the other. She changes the direction depending on the background scenerey... black background black cards... leaks don't show.
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maylor
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I always use manipulation cards, in show and in practice. I like to practice with the exact same cards as I'll be performing with. That way I know exactly how the cards will handle when it matters. I know some people like to practice with different types of cards from those that they will use in the show. I personally don't see the point of this.
David Le
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Quote:
For my performances I use red backed bikes. At the distance I stand and the movement of my hands, it's hard to see the cards in bp or in the concealment.

Now that's what I'm talkin' about Smile You go, dj! Smile
djvirtualreality
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Lol David......you feeling ok? lol
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David Le
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No. My religion teacher sent me out because I wasn't using proper attire in our Penitential Celebration! would you believe that?!?

Oh my! This has nothing to do with the thread and this happened AFTER the I made the post that made you respond like that ^

:giggles:
magic4u02
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The key is to find what cards work for you. Just make sure you use the same cards for performance that you have been using for practice.
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thumbslinger
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I'm fairly new to really 'doing' card magic and although I like the Bikes because of general familitarlity with them among the general public, I like practicing with Bees because I find that in fact you do have to be more careful in handling when you're doing something like a Triumph or anything with a reversed card because no borders will show that one reversed card like a single headlight on the road in the middle of the night!

Other than that, it doesn't seem to matter to me. Smile
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magic4u02
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I think we are more focused on this post on card manipulation for the stage as opposed to using bikes or bees in regular close-up card magic.
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RandyStewart
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I don't know if the brand or type of card is as important as the skill level. For example, have you ever seen "professional manipulation cards" ie Nielsen or P.Marvey in the hands of a novice? Can look pretty terrible.

Have you ever seen blue/red back bicycles in the hands of an expert? Can look pretty amazing.

Expert technique and flesh colored backs might be a killer combination Smile
magic4u02
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Randy:
I agree with you in that it really is a skill level that comes first and then which ever cards feel more comfortable in your hands.

I student of manipulation should never buy the cards with the thought that the cards will make everything easier for them and prevent them from really having to develop their technique.
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