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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » How to respond to an anti-conspiracy theorist (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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landmark
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Quote:
“You sound like a conspiracy theorist.”
RESPONSE: “Conspiracy Theorist? Now tell me the truth, where did you hear that term…on TV? (Laugh.) …So let me get this straight. Are you saying that men in high positions of power are not capable of criminal activity and telling lies to the general public? Are you really that naive?” (Laugh as you say this.)
.
“I’m not saying that governments don’t lie, but a conspiracy like that would have to involve 100′s of people. You can’t hide something like that.”
RESPONSE: “You’re absolutely right. I agree with you 100%. It is impossible to totally cover up a conspiracy so massive. That’s why I know about it! What you must understand is that they don’t have to cover it up totally. Even a bucket that has a few leaks can still do the job of carrying water from here to there! They only need to fool 80% of the public, which isn’t hard to do when you control the major networks and newspapers. The 10-20% that do figure it out (and the fewer still who will dare to speak their minds about it) can be very easily marginalized with the propaganda label “conspiracy theorist.” The 80% + never take us critical thinkers seriously because they want to be part of the majority. This is known as groupthink.(*Note: When saying “conspiracy theorist”, always hold your two hands up as you make sarcastic quote marks with your fingers.)


More here: http://www.zengardner.com/how-to-respond......heorist/
Steve_Mollett
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That's right--shift the burden of proof to where it doesn't belong.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
tommy
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To Guantanamo Bay?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2013-05-06 19:27, Steve_Mollett wrote:
That's right--shift the burden of proof to where it doesn't belong.


Isn't that always the move?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
critter
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There are reasons that conspiracy "theorists" are so interesting to cognitive scientists Smile
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Pakar Ilusi
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I have a blatant conspiracy in which people are killed for just proposing It in some parts.

Derren Brown calls It 'the greatest placebo of all'.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
landmark
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Ummm... I think Marx & Engels may have beaten Derren to that phrase. Smile
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2013-05-07 17:42, landmark wrote:
Ummm... I think Marx & Engels may have beaten Derren to that phrase. Smile


Didn't say Derren said it first. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
tommy
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How to respond to an anti-conspiracy theorist is unknown because the government is keeping it a secret.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
ed rhodes
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I usually go with the classic "You're a loony."

I've dealt with all of them on alt.conspiracy; Moon Landings? Fake. WTC? Done by the government. I have a guy I fight with named Warhol who's claimed that EVERYTHING to do with space is fake because rockets don't work in space and radio waves need air to be utilized (hence their nickname in the 30s "airwaves.") In trying to show him a few things, he's rejected anything I've presented because he doesn't accept any scientific evidence that post dates the 19th Century! Everything else is fake!

The latest and most disgusting theories; the Sandy Hook shootings and the Boston Marathon bombings were both faked with actors (amputees with prosthetics attached to look like their limbs had been blown off.)

What else can you say to such people but; "You're a loony!"?
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Pakar Ilusi
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I love that people cannot accept plain scientifically provable facts but wholeheartedly accept deity.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Woland
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Above, when conversing with a conspiracy enthusiast, don't tell them about this:

Quote:
Did you know that in the early 1970s, the Internal Revenue Service investigated the Pritzker family, whose scion Penny Pritzker has just been tapped by President Obama to become Secretary of Commerce, because their Hyatt Corporation was paying no taxes? And that in the course of the inquiry, an IRS statement quoted an informant with access to the records of the offshore bank where they hid their assets that the family, “through their Hyatt Corporation, received their initial backing from organized crime”?

Did you know that this particular financial institution, Castle Bank & Trust of the Bahamas, was founded by a veteran of the wartime spy agency the Office of Strategic Services who specialized in creating front organizations for the CIA, and helped launder funds for attempts to overthrow Fidel Castro? That Castle operated by arranging for a Miami bank controlled by associates of mobster Meyer Lansky to accept the original deposits, which it then passed on to Castle with only code numbers, but not names, attached?

Did you know that the IRS dropped a major investigation of Castle in 1977, according to The Wall Street Journal, at the behest of the Central Intelligence Agency?

And did you know one of the bank’s cofounders, the late Burton Kanter, was on the board of the Hyatt Hotels Corporation, and that—as The Kansas City Times discovered in a 1982 Pulitzer Prize–winning investigation following the collapse of a shoddily constructed skywalk that killed 114 at a Hyatt in 1981—the Pritzkers were Castle Bank’s largest depositors?

Did you know that Kanter was the Pritzker family’s tax lawyer, and was able to reduce the IRS bill when patriarch A.N. Pritzker died in 1986 from the $150 million the government said the family owed for his estate only $9.5 million? (Or that family itself claimed his estate only possessed $3,000 in taxable assets?) Did you know that, twenty-four years later, a tax judge ruled that Kanter was the “architect” of “a concerted effort” to profit from kickbacks involving the siphoning off of funds managed by insurance companies? (The hustle included the invention of sham companies—“pure tax avoidance vehicles,” the judge said—the destruction of documents, and “implausible” and “incredible” testimony by Kanter.) This 2007 article by David Cay Johnston on the “overwhelming objective evidence” that led another tax judge to uphold the conviction places the Pritzker family at the center of the scam. And it notes that Kanter’s tax returns, now public, “show he never paid any significant tax. Yet he amassed a fortune big enough at one time to make him a credible bidder for the Miami Dolphins football team.”

Did you know that A.N. publicly denied ever using the legal services of fixer Sidney Korshak, for decades the notorious transit point between the mob and legitimate business interests in Chicago, before Korshak admitted to the Securities and Exchange Commission that he was in fact the family’s labor lawyer? That a Los Angeles Police investigator’s report said A.N. was “[c]losely connected with members of the Capone syndicate, Tony Accardo, and other underworld characters? It is believed by the undersigned that Pritzker may be active locally, as a front for Eastern hoodlum money to be invested in the Los Angeles Area”? That A.N.’s law partner Stanford Clinton was general counsel for the notoriously mob-connected Teamsters pension fund?

I got much of this stuff from Gus Russo’s voluminous book Supermob: How Sidney Korshak and His Criminal Associates Became America’s Hidden Power Brokers. It’s an over-the-top book, hanging all sorts of claims on insinuation and guilt by association, so I’ve only included here the stuff I consider solid. And let’s respectfully dissent from Shakespeare, who wrote in the Merchant of Venice, “The sins of the father are to be laid upon the children”: Penny is not responsible for the dodgy practices of her grandfather. It’s not her fault her late Uncle Jay, who bought Hyatt in 1957, deployed it as a platform for innovative “asset management” financial engineering that kept the family at arms’ length regarding risk and responsibility (nowadays with the assets coming from Chicago taxpayers). She can’t be held responsible for the way Jay, back before that, benefited from very questionable deals arising from his tenure in the Justice Department’s Alien Property office, responsible for assets seized by the government. Nor can she be held responsible for the mob money allegedly behind the expansion of Hyatt in the first place. “Behind every fortune lies a great crime,” is the Balzac quote Russo uses to introduce the Pritzker family in his book; but that’s not Penny’s fault either, is it?

But certain patterns still obtain. It is one of the most crucial stories for understanding our age: how tax-avoidance strategies of a previous generation that might have landed you in court are now legal—which does not make them any more ethical. In fact, it may make them less ethical—precisely because third-gen scions like Penny, born in 1959, have entered into the political establishment, where their representatives, their latter-day Korshaks and Kanters, do their laundering in the halls of government instead of in Las Vegas hotel room meetings with associates of Tony Accardo. The scumminess is the same, or, really, worse; as Charlie Savage wrote this week in The New York Times, “Republican senators are likely to be interested in the Pritzker family’s reputation as innovators in the use of offshore trusts and foreign bank secrecy laws to shelter their wealth from income, capital gains and inheritance taxes. Even after tax loopholes were closed, the family’s trusts were grandfathered in and it kept benefiting from them.” As well the Republican senators should. And, hell, Democratic senators, too.


The source is the unimpeachable "The Nation."

The guy you're talking with might tell you about the Kennedys' ties to the Chicago mob, and about Joe Biden's, too. And of course the President himself has been tied into the Chicago power structure for decades.
landmark
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Woland accidentally and unaccountably left out another key reason from The Nation article why Pritzker as Commerce Secretary is so objectionable: her infamous union busting at her Hyatt Hotels, and her position on Rahm Emmanuel's Chicago school board. From the first part of The Nation article, the fascinating details:

Quote:
...unions despise her. Among the reasons: the Hyatt hotel chain, which the Pritzkers built practically from nothing, is infamous for just about the worst treatment of their staff in the business [...]

Since that near-nomination, Chicago’s new mayor, Rahm Emanuel, chose Penny Pritzker to join the mayor-appointed school board—a body, as I’ve been documenting here, that has fanatically devoted to breaking the Chicago Teachers Union, and turning over the system to charter school operators. Their excuse has been the school system’s alleged $500 million deficit. Which is where Penny comes in. For while the city’s budget for schools is alleged to be bare, the city’s tax increment financing (TIF) fund, a slush pile for rich developers, carries a surplus of at least $500 million. What does this have to do with Penny Pritzker? Well, as it happens, on my very street, she is building a Hyatt financed with $5.2 million in TIF funds. As the Chicago Teachers Union points out, the TIF fund is controlled personally by the mayor; members of the school board (from which Pritzker recently resigned ahead of her Commerce appointment), overwhelmingly his rich campaign backers, are personally appointed by the mayor; and nothing’s keeping them from leaning on the mayor to tap the TIF surplus to plug the school deficit—except the fact that this very deficit is the rhetorical foundation for all the things they’re doing to weaken the union. All in all, Penny Pritzker’s relationship with labor has become exponentially worse since her near-nomination in 2008.
EsnRedshirt
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Ed- pre-19th century? He should realize that radiowaves and rocket propulsion utilize the æther as their medium of functionality.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2013-05-08 07:21, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
I love that people cannot accept plain scientifically provable facts but wholeheartedly accept deity.


I am quite capable of accepting both. Where they contradict, I assume a hearding/farming society misunderstood something.
I used to have a signature that read; ''Evolution is God's toolbox.''
Used to tick off both sides of the argument.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2013-05-08 10:08, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Ed- pre-19th century? He should realize that radiowaves and rocket propulsion utilize the æther as their medium of functionality.


Oh no. He acknowledges vacuum. He couldn't have his conspiracy theory without it.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Pop Haydn
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There is a highly secret cabal of wealthy and powerful families in Lithuania that are the creators and primary secret source of all the conspiracy theories currently in vogue. The conspiracies, the faked evidence, and their underlying motive of world domination all originate there.

Anyone that questions its existence is a part of the conspiracy.
Dannydoyle
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I have always been a fan of the well placed "uh huh".
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Woland
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Hi landmark,

Well at least we agree she has no business in the cabinet. I didn't want to quote the entire article . . .
tommy
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Pros and cons of piracy?

Con's Piracy

:pirate:

Our magic could learn something from conspiracy theories. One of the things that attracts people to our magic is its secrets, its mystery, its mystique. It is the same thing that attracts people to things like the Masons. They are fascinated with all that stuff. So put it out and draw them in.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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