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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Castro Murder Charge (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Woland
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It appears that Ariel Castro will be indicted for aggravated murder under Ohio law, because after he raped his victims, he terminated their pregnancies by force. If he had their permission, under Ohio law, terminating the pregnancies would not be a crime at all.
landmark
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LA Times gets the Most Restrained Headline of the Year Award:

"Cleveland Suspect Ariel Castro: A Troubling Portrait Emerges"

Troubling? Ya think?
landmark
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Quote:
If he had their permission, under Ohio law, terminating the pregnancies would not be a crime at all.

And in other news, if he had their permission, under Ohio law, it wouldn't be rape either.
Woland
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What about the kidnapping? Can you give permission for that?

Interesting, though, that he is not charged with murdering the women, but their offspring. A woman can give permission for something affecting someone else, that would be murder without her assent.

Of course, in Rome, a man could have his children killed (and other descendants in the male line) at any age.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2013-05-09 21:29, landmark wrote:
Quote:
If he had their permission, under Ohio law, terminating the pregnancies would not be a crime at all.

And in other news, if he had their permission, under Ohio law, it wouldn't be rape either.


And the special Academy Award for the least fitting analogy goes to...
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

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Pakar Ilusi
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It he had their permission?

He raped them right?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Woland
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Yes, Pakar. Repeatedly, it seems. For a decade.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2013-05-09 18:51, Woland wrote:

If he had their permission, under Ohio law, terminating the pregnancies would not be a crime at all.

Really? Even though he was not a licensed physician? Or even if the pregnancies had been late-term? In either of those cases, I seriously doubt "terminating the pregnancies would not be a crime at all".
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Woland
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A reasonable point. But the crime would be practicing medicine without a license. The fact that pregnancies were terminated would not be a crime.
lunatik
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It was just an abortion by punching, what's wrong with that?
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
mastermindreader
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On 2013-05-10 12:40, Woland wrote:
A reasonable point. But the crime would be practicing medicine without a license. The fact that pregnancies were terminated would not be a crime.


Given the fact that "permission" would be meaningless since it is clear that the women were under duress, the crime would be fetal homicide if the act was committed in the third trimester and assault and battery if committed before.
Woland
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Thanks, Bob. Yet we've seen, as in the Gosnell case, that fetal homicide is not a crime if it is performed at the mother's request.
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That's NOT what the Gosnell case is about, nor were the women being held captive so the cases aren't comparable at all.

Gosnell is going away for a long time for his crimes, though. As is Castro.
landmark
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Quote:
On 2013-05-09 23:23, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-05-09 21:29, landmark wrote:
Quote:
If he had their permission, under Ohio law, terminating the pregnancies would not be a crime at all.

And in other news, if he had their permission, under Ohio law, it wouldn't be rape either.


And the special Academy Award for the least fitting analogy goes to...

I'll assume that that response at least gets what my point is. For those who don't--it's simply this: Woland's remark was basically trying to conflate legal abortion with what happened in Ohio as only a mere difference in permission. My point is, lack of permission is a huge difference that changes everything--it turns loving relationships into rape. So I was poking fun at Woland for his anti-abortion subtext heavy-handedness.
Woland
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I thought your point was reasonable, landmark. You seem to disagree with me only as to whether the lack of permission is "mere" or major. Rereading my O.P., I don't see that I used the adverb "merely."

But note, Bob, that Gosnell is not being tried for any of the pre-birth abortions he carried out, only for the post-birth murders. (Although I think there was a legislator in the Illinois State Senate who strenuously argued that physicians should be allowed to kill intended-abortions who happened to be born alive.)

I will repeat that under Roman Law, a father could have his children, and his further descendants in the male line, executed at any time.
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