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R.S.
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On 2013-05-17 23:15, acesover wrote:
I myself believe that evolution is a very distinct possibility where after much evolution...well the Creator stepped in and said time for souls and all that religious stuff.


Actually, evolution is more than a distinct possibility. It is an established fact.


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
R.S.
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To keep things in perspective, here is a (fairly close) approximation of the scale of the universe. I've actually done this (because I have no life) and it's a lot of fun to amaze your friends. Take an object, say a softball, and put it in one corner of your house. The softball represents the Sun. Now, measure a distance of about 31 feet from the softball. At the 31 foot distance, place a (tiny) pinhead. The pinhead represents the earth. You now have a sense of the sizes and scales of the Earth/Sun relationship.

The closest star to our Sun is Proxima Centauri, at a distance of 4.2 light years (a light year is about 6 TRILLION miles). So where would we have to place a second softball to represent Proxima Centauri? The answer is that it would have to be about 1,515 miles away!! I live in central CT, so my Proxima Centauri softball would have to be located in Kansas City! And that's the CLOSEST star to our Sun! Our Sun (a softball) in one corner of my house, the Earth (a pinhead) stuck in my bookcase about 31 feet away, and the next closest softball sized star in Kansas City! And with nothing but a cold, dark, desolate void between them. I often try to imagine a tiny, imperceptibly small vessel leaving that pinhead Earth and trying to navigate it's way to the Proxima Centauri softball 1,515 miles away. On that scale, how long would it take to get there? What resources would that tiny vessel need to bring for the journey? How would it stay on course? The Voyager missions that we launched in the 1970s would by now just have made it to the first traffic light on my street!

Of course, we have all been spoiled by Hollywood. Most people believe the universe to be more within our grasp than it actually is. The reality of immense distances, timescales, and quintillions of objects renders our little corner of the solar system more insignificant than most people would like to believe. And it would be hubris to believe that we are so special that we not only have caught the attention of an intelligent alien race, but that we are worth a massive investment in their time, technology, and resources to come here and then to stealthily leave nothing more than ambiguous clues of their existence and return back to their home planet. Granted, the trip might not be impossible (assuming greatly advanced technology), but under any measure, it's certainly still incredibly daunting. And it begs the question, what's to gain on the part of these (advanced) aliens?


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
w_s_anderson
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Very cool post Ron! I've never thought about the distances in that perspective before.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Nice posts, Ron.

More to the point, why would aliens be like us in any way? There's no reason to suppose that their evolutionary history would be anything like ours, so why would we expect life on other planets to be similar to life on earth?

We should expect alien life to eat, breathe and excrete, I suppose. Some of it should move--so legs or fins of some sort are likely out there. But after that, who knows?

OTOH Demi Moore is from Roswell, NM. She somewhat resembles us, but there are a few other-worldly features as well...
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
R.S.
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On 2013-05-18 11:53, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Nice posts, Ron.

More to the point, why would aliens be like us in any way? There's no reason to suppose that their evolutionary history would be anything like ours, so why would we expect life on other planets to be similar to life on earth?

We should expect alien life to eat, breathe and excrete, I suppose. Some of it should move--so legs or fins of some sort are likely out there. But after that, who knows?

OTOH Demi Moore is from Roswell, NM. She somewhat resembles us, but there are a few other-worldly features as well...


Exactly. Even our own planet has wildly diverse species - from lobsters, to bees, to kangaroos, to whales, to chickens, to humans. And on and on. To expect aliens to resemble Keanu Reeves in The Day The Earth Stood Still is a stretch. Although highly advanced aliens would necessarily require some basic features in order to move about and manipulate their environment - legs and arms/hands I suppose. But then again, of the millions of species of life on Earth just ONE has the ability to construct (rudimentary) space faring vehicles.

Moreover, it's still no guarantee that technologically advanced and highly intelligent aliens (if they exist somewhere) would ever even know about us. Our earliest radio transmissions announcing our presence have not had enough time yet to reach even a tenth OF A TENTH of the way to the CENTER of our own galaxy, let alone to propagate to any of the other billions of galaxies outside of the Milky Way. And even if they did somehow know about us, perhaps they just aren't motivated to come here (again, if it's even possible given the mind-numbing distances). They may have a evolved a self sufficient and totally cooperative society and may have no need, desire, or interest in other beings. In fact, they may have come to realize there's an inherent danger in reaching out to unknown beings. The Earth is a good example of that. We have a long history of rival nations invading and conquering other nations. And that's our own species! Silence may be the best policy in the universe at large.

Yes, I've often wondered about Demi Moore. Smile


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Keanu Reeves as Klaatu was completely inaccurate and very upsetting to all of us who know that aliens look like Michael Rennie.
rockwall
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On 2013-05-18 10:13, R.S. wrote:
To keep things in perspective, here is a (fairly close) approximation of the scale of the universe. I've actually done this (because I have no life) and it's a lot of fun to amaze your friends. Take an object, say a softball, and put it in one corner of your house. The softball represents the Sun. Now, measure a distance of about 31 feet from the softball. At the 31 foot distance, place a (tiny) pinhead. The pinhead represents the earth. You now have a sense of the sizes and scales of the Earth/Sun relationship.

The closest star to our Sun is Proxima Centauri, at a distance of 4.2 light years (a light year is about 6 TRILLION miles). So where would we have to place a second softball to represent Proxima Centauri? The answer is that it would have to be about 1,515 miles away!! I live in central CT, so my Proxima Centauri softball would have to be located in Kansas City! And that's the CLOSEST star to our Sun! Our Sun (a softball) in one corner of my house, the Earth (a pinhead) stuck in my bookcase about 31 feet away, and the next closest softball sized star in Kansas City! And with nothing but a cold, dark, desolate void between them. I often try to imagine a tiny, imperceptibly small vessel leaving that pinhead Earth and trying to navigate it's way to the Proxima Centauri softball 1,515 miles away. On that scale, how long would it take to get there? What resources would that tiny vessel need to bring for the journey? How would it stay on course? The Voyager missions that we launched in the 1970s would by now just have made it to the first traffic light on my street!

Of course, we have all been spoiled by Hollywood. Most people believe the universe to be more within our grasp than it actually is. The reality of immense distances, timescales, and quintillions of objects renders our little corner of the solar system more insignificant than most people would like to believe. And it would be hubris to believe that we are so special that we not only have caught the attention of an intelligent alien race, but that we are worth a massive investment in their time, technology, and resources to come here and then to stealthily leave nothing more than ambiguous clues of their existence and return back to their home planet. Granted, the trip might not be impossible (assuming greatly advanced technology), but under any measure, it's certainly still incredibly daunting. And it begs the question, what's to gain on the part of these (advanced) aliens?


Ron


Well shoot. If it's only 1,515 miles away, it shouldn't be THAT hard to travel between them! Smile
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Great post Ron! I like the analogy. Without going into too much detail, a straight line is NOT the shortest distance between two points. We have been thinking in a linear fashion. We don't think of Gravity as a factor.

Regardless. When they are revealed it will be too late anyway. There will always be non-believers. That's why I'm not too concerned. No. I have no proof. I know what I know. Maybe I'm completely nuts, and need to be locked up...I don't know... Smile
R.S.
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On 2013-05-18 13:45, rockwall wrote:
Well shoot. If it's only 1,515 miles away, it shouldn't be THAT hard to travel between them! Smile


LOL! Good one Rockwall. Smile

Ron
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I was about to post one of those analogies thanks Ron.

Evolut is a fact? Not rally. In the micro yea but the macro nobody can say fact. I am not sayi g I don't believe mi d you. Just tdying to be as clear as possible.

Doug you are talking Einstein Rosen stuff and warping space and what not. Maybe but doubtful.

If you are talking faster than light travel (Which I doubt because of your linear reference.) then consider the closer you get to light speed the more energy it takes to accelerate. To accelerate the space shuttle to light speed would take an infinite amount of fuel. Certainly you see the problem there.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
R.S.
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On 2013-05-18 16:25, Dougini wrote:
Great post Ron! I like the analogy. Without going into too much detail, a straight line is NOT the shortest distance between two points. We have been thinking in a linear fashion. We don't think of Gravity as a factor.

Regardless. When they are revealed it will be too late anyway. There will always be non-believers. That's why I'm not too concerned. No. I have no proof. I know what I know. Maybe I'm completely nuts, and need to be locked up...I don't know... Smile



Hi Doug,

Yes, wormholes (or similar constructs) would solve the distance problem. The problem is, wormholes are highly speculative and there is no evidence for them. And even if there were wormholes, you would have the difficulty of tailoring them for use. And again, even highly advanced aliens who may have perfected wormhole travel would still have to know about us in order to visit. That's a biggie right there. Furthermore, they would need incentive to visit once they knew of us. I doubt that playing hide and seek with us, or drawing circles in crops, or mutilating a few cattle is the ultimate payoff for their mastering the physics of wormholes/gravity.

Too late for what???

You say you have no proof. Well you know, proof is the thing really. Proof would help your cause here. If someone claimed to be able leap off of tall buildings and fly unaided like Superman, I'm sure you would be skeptical and would demand proof, right? You wouldn't just take their word for such a fantastic claim, would you? We're all skeptics about some things. We just need to be consistent in applying skepticism across the board.

PS - Is your final reveal that you are from Tau Ceti?

Ron
:)
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R.S.
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On 2013-05-18 18:24, Dannydoyle wrote:
I was about to post one of those analogies thanks Ron.

Evolut is a fact? Not rally. In the micro yea but the macro nobody can say fact. I am not sayi g I don't believe mi d you. Just tdying to be as clear as possible.

Doug you are talking Einstein Rosen stuff and warping space and what not. Maybe but doubtful.

If you are talking faster than light travel (Which I doubt because of your linear reference.) then consider the closer you get to light speed the more energy it takes to accelerate. To accelerate the space shuttle to light speed would take an infinite amount of fuel. Certainly you see the problem there.


You're welcome Danny.

Yes, evolution is a fact. In fact, it's a THEORY! And in science, Theories rank even higher than facts.

Good point about the problem of accelerating to light speed.

Ron
:)
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http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/magnolia/europareport/

EUROPA REPORT follows a contemporary mission to Jupiter's moon Europa to investigate the possible existence of alien life within our solar system. When unmanned probes suggest that a hidden ocean could exist underneath Europa's icy surface and may contain single-celled life, Europa Ventures, a privately funded space exploration company, sends six of the best astronauts from around the world to confirm the data and explore the revolutionary discoveries that may lie in the Europan ocean. After a near-catastrophic technical failure that leads to loss of communication with Earth and the tragic death of a crewmember, the surviving astronauts must overcome the psychological and physical toll of deep space travel, and survive a discovery on Europa more profound than they had ever imagined
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On 2013-05-18 18:24, Dannydoyle wrote:

To accelerate the space shuttle to light speed would take an infinite amount of fuel. Certainly you see the problem there.



...and not to forget the the exotic "energy" needed to create the warp bubble to hold a ship together, so even if you had infinite amount of fuel, without the warp bubble, faster than light travel is not possible.

Above are just few of very highly advanced technologies needed for humans to ever venture our galaxy and beyond.

Like they said, its nice to have an open mind but you should not keep it sooo open that your brain falls out.
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And again, even highly advanced aliens who may have perfected wormhole travel would still have to know about us in order to visit. That's a biggie right there.


I don't really think that's a problem. A block away from me is a run-down pizza joint that advertises itself as "World-Famous." News travels fast evidently.
R.S.
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On 2013-05-19 07:25, landmark wrote:
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And again, even highly advanced aliens who may have perfected wormhole travel would still have to know about us in order to visit. That's a biggie right there.


I don't really think that's a problem. A block away from me is a run-down pizza joint that advertises itself as "World-Famous." News travels fast evidently.


That's true, landmark. But then again, how come every Miss Universe contestant we've ever had was from Earth??

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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On 2013-05-19 08:44, R.S. wrote:

That's true, landmark. But then again, how come every Miss Universe contestant we've ever had was from Earth ??




Maybe the aliens haven't taken part becouse they think its all a fix Smile
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But then again, how come every Miss Universe contestant we've ever had was from Earth??


Are you sure?
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Well they have to show their birth certificate, which is why the president will never win it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Excellent point about reaching light speed. The biggest problem is, time moves at the speed of light. When you reach light speed, time stops altogether! Not a good way to travel. There's this "infinite density" thing as well, but I won't go into that.

I don't want to get all religious on you, but have you heard of The Watchers?
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