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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » Memoria - Fraser Parker (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Martin Pulman
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The best way to describe Memoria would be that it is an attempt at a close-up impromptu "Reminiscence". It should be noted, however,
that it cannot be performed close up to one person.

It's not entirely clear what relationships playing cards have to memories and the scripting doesn't make it any clearer to the spectator or the audience, but as Peter says, it would be possible (preferable)to use something other than a deck of cards as the initial "memory generating" device. The effect seems pretty muddled to me, but there may be a germ of an idea trying to get out (unfortunately, I feel that germ fully formed itself over a decade ago in Mr Brown's effect but I have the feeling I'm a bit old fashioned in my tastes).

I remain unconvinced that the technique used in Memoria is suitable for close up work but much more experienced minds than me insist it is so. If you agree with them you may love this effect. I think there are much stronger and more logical ways to achieve the effect that actually can be performed close up, one on one.

For full disclosure, I am not a friend or business associate of the creator and paid full price for this effect.
Stephen Young
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Photographs!

Combine it with my Photo Psyche and you have a congruence between the memories and the item being chosen.
A killer that can work for one person, though I agree it works best for a group.

I can see the correlation with Derrens's effect, but in my opinion it is a different animal indeed.

It's very tempting to say "Original is best, don't mess with it"
Buy if we didn't constantly tweak, re-work or completely overhaul existing effects, technology, laws, anything.... there would be no progress.

I think this effect is worthy of working on, possibly polishing off some rough edges, but there are lots of effects that need some tweaking before putting into practice.

All this just my opinion
Steve

PS something I've been hinting at when mentioning using things other than cards,
Try combining it with MD. Some colour related memories anc ...
KERPOW! A very strong variant indeed
Martin Pulman
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Hi Steve,

Thanks for your reply to my critique of Memoria. You write:

"Combine it with my Photo Psyche and you have a congruence between the memories and the item being chosen.
A killer that can work for one person, though I agree it works best for a group."

I haven't yet purchased Photo Psyche. Are you saying that if I combined your effect with Memoria I would be able to perform the Memoria effect one-on-one with a spectator and achieve something other than what Mr Parker himself calls "the mundane effect"?
If so, the effect you are selling sounds very interesting.
But as it stands I would say Memoria is IMPOSSIBLE to perform one on one, just as "Reminiscence" would be.Not necessarily a deal breaker (I consider "Reminiscence" to be one of the greatest routines of all time)but something I wish I had known before I purchased it.In that respect I think the advertising is somewhat misleading.

"It's very tempting to say "Original is best, don't mess with it"
Buy if we didn't constantly tweak, re-work or completely overhaul existing effects, technology, laws, anything.... there would be no progress."

Agree with you 100%. I sadly don't consider this to be progress, more regress, though as I say, I know there are people who love this sort of thing and may well love Memoria.

Regards,
Martin.
Cristobal
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I like Memoria very much and it has a lot of possibilities. And I have a list of other effects/techniques that I can use Memoria with. Although I have no problems in using cards. Also you can use tarot or similar decks.

The only point in common between Memoria and Reminiscence is the theme. I can't see how Memoria is a "regress"... I don't understand that point.

You can perform Memoria one on one with no problem (I don't see why you can't). But you can't perform Reminiscence one on one. Reminiscence is a stage routine. Memoria is for close-up, stage,... You can use Memoria with other techniques/effects,... Even you can perform Memoria impromptu. Reminiscence needs a setup and props. So I don't understand why to compare those two.

For a version of Memoria impromptu (no deck or any mentalist's prop) you can do a lot of things. Even I could do it using only my phone or the spectator's phone, or only pen and paper.
Martin Pulman
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[quote]On 2013-06-05 06:19, Cristobal wrote:
The only point in common between Memoria and Reminiscence is the theme. [quote]
Both effects involve the performer revealing memories that the spectator is only thinking of, prompted by looking at a card they have chosen. They both use the same technique to achieve this illusion. The only difference is that Memoria is trying to achieve this in an impromptu fashion. In my opinion it doesn't succeed.

[quote]I can't see how Memoria is a "regress"... I don't understand that point.
[quote]
In Reminiscence, Derren Brown was careful to add a lot of convincers and subtleties that threw both subject and observers off the track - the hypnotic induction, the audience feedback, the t** d***, the final use of a***** .Memoria, in common with most of the latest effects using this technique abandons such subtleties and convincers. I consider this a regression.

[quote]You can perform Memoria one on one with no problem (I don't see why you can't).
[quote]
Perhaps you are misunderstanding me. I mean it cannot be done one on one with no one else watching. I don't see how you can perform any effect of this nature one on one. The clue is in the name of the technique. I agree that you could perform what Mr Parker calls the "mundane effect" one on one, but why would anyone want to do that? It would be like performing Colin McLeods Bookless Booktest to a single spectator.

Nor do I think it is realistic to perform this close up to people who know each other. Not if you want to prevent their memory of the effect passing from the "major" to the "mundane" rather swiftly.

[quote]Reminiscence is a stage routine, Memoria is for close up... you can perform Memoria impromptu. Reminiscence needs a set up and props. So I don't understand why to compare the two.
[quote]
Er... That is why I said in my first sentence it is an attempt to do CLOSE UP, IMPROMPTU Reminiscence. I can only assume you didn't read my initial post?

You seem to be making it work very well for you so it was obviously a worthwhile purchase in your eyes. I think it is muddled in concept and weak in effect.

Regards,
Martin
Cristobal
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Quote:
They both use the same technique to achieve this illusion.


Well... The same technique... I could accept is conceptually the same "family of techniques". As I said: if Reminiscence use special props and Memoria can be achieve with, let's say, a cross f***e and a regular deck (or with a psychological f***e or whatever you want), it can not be the same technique.

Quote:
In Reminiscence, Derren Brown was careful to add a lot of convincers and subtleties that threw both subject and observers off the track - the hypnotic induction, the audience feedback, the t** d***, the final use of a***** .Memoria, in common with most of the latest effects using this technique abandons such subtleties and convincers. I consider this a regression.


Memoria is a technique and you can build a routine above it as simple or complex as you want. For example, you can add the hypnotic induction if you want, or a DD at the end, name divination,...

Quote:
I don't see how you can perform any effect of this nature one on one. The clue is in the name of the technique.
(...)
Nor do I think it is realistic to perform this close up to people who know each other. Not if you want to prevent their memory of the effect passing from the "major" to the "mundane" rather swiftly.


Even if the spectators see only the "mundane" effect, it's a good presentation for that kind of effects. With Reminiscence, if both parts comments the effect you are totally caught. Also, as Peter Turner and others suggest and demonstrate, that "technique" can work in close up perfectly.

Quote:
Er... That is why I said in my first sentence it is an attempt to do CLOSE UP, IMPROMPTU Reminiscence. I can only assume you didn't read my initial post?


I didn't mean you said otherwise.

Quote:
You seem to be making it work very well for you so it was obviously a worthwhile purchase in your eyes. I think it is muddled in concept and weak in effect.


Well, let's see this way: there are times I only divine a card (and it's such a great effect for spectators). With Memoria I can divine complex memories and more at the same "price". And I can apply it to a lot of other effects.
parmenion
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I notice, it's often people misunderstand you post Martin.
I understood the same things Cristobal has understood.
Memoria has nothing in commun with reminescense.
It's not because you can't do it, it means it doesn't work or it's impossible.
This effect need practice , it's not a ready to perform effect become mind reader in 5mn and win a puppet.
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Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On 2013-06-05 09:16, parmenion wrote:
I notice, it's often people misunderstand you post Martin.
I understood the same things Cristobal has understood.
Memoria has nothing in commun with reminescense.
It's not because you can't do it, it means it doesn't work or it's impossible.
This effect need practice , it's not a ready to perform effect become mind reader in 5mn and win a puppet.


I've noticed that too parmenion. Perhaps it is because I am not a friend or aquaintance of the people who are SELLING these effects, just someone BUYING them. Strangely the posts praising each new release with overwhelming hyperbole are never misunderstood. Odd that!

As for Memoria having nothing in common with Reminiscence. Er...we are talking about the same routines I take it!?

Also, I have no need to win a puppet, but nor do I think practising Memoria will erase its basic defects.

Sorry I can't be gushing in my praise for this. I like to tell the truth in my reviews as I see it. Hope that is still allowed on the Café?
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On 2013-06-05 09:02, Cristobal wrote:
Quote:
They both use the same technique to achieve this illusion.


Well... The same technique... I could accept is conceptually the same "family of techniques". As I said: if Reminiscence use special props and Memoria can be achieve with, let's say, a cross f***e and a regular deck (or with a psychological f***e or whatever you want), it can not be the same technique.


The technique I am talking about is the one the author himself claims achieves the illusion. The one he mentions four times in the introduction to Memoria. That technique. It is the same main technique used in Reminiscence. I'm happy to debate subjective matters but any serious person discussing this effect must surely acknowledge that objective fact.

Some of Mr Parker's other work is doubtless wonderful. I really like his persona, approach and intention and look forward to buying more of his work. But this one was a major disappointment for me.
Cristobal
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Quote:
On 2013-06-05 10:00, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-06-05 09:02, Cristobal wrote:
Quote:
They both use the same technique to achieve this illusion.


Well... The same technique... I could accept is conceptually the same "family of techniques". As I said: if Reminiscence use special props and Memoria can be achieve with, let's say, a cross f***e and a regular deck (or with a psychological f***e or whatever you want), it can not be the same technique.


The technique I am talking about is the one the author himself claims achieves the illusion. The one he mentions four times in the introduction to Memoria. That technique. It is the same main technique used in Reminiscence. I'm happy to debate subjective matters but any serious person discussing this effect must surely acknowledge that objective fact.

Some of Mr Parker's other work is doubtless wonderful. I really like his persona, approach and intention and look forward to buying more of his work. But this one was a major disappointment for me.


If you read between the lines of my post you'll see that I understand the "technique" you are talking about. But you must admit that not all routines that use that technique are related to Reminiscence. Same technique if you want but the method is totally different. Memoria uses the same general principle but in a different way.

I think that Parmenion means that you must work to build a solid routine using the idea that Parker sells, not only practicing it.

By the way I'm not related to Fraser Parker in any way, have not even talked online. I simply like the effect Smile You have the right to criticize it, but I have the right to answered you too. I think I've been polite Smile
Martin Pulman
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Cristobal,

Not sure what the winking icon means but I certainly think you have been polite. We are debating a mentalism effect, not solving the middle east conflict, why woudn't we be polite?

I'm sure it is likely most people on the Café will agree with your opinion of Memoria. I think, however, it is healthy for the Café to hear a variety of opinions, if the opinions are honestly held and not personal in nature.

Regards, Martin.
Sean Giles
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He calls it the mundane effect to differentiate it in the manuscript. Not because it is actually mundane. The strength is in how you present it, how you build it up. That's down to you and has nothing to do with what's in the ebook.

Sean
Stephen Young
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I think It's a good thing that the same effect can be a fantastic worker for one performer, but leave another underwhelmed.

We all have different styles, personas, even audiences.
Personally I very much like effects that leave a lot of room for "tweaking"
It means that not everyone is performing a carbon copy of the same routine.

To answer Martins' earlier question about performing to one person using my Photo Psyche rather than playing cards.
Yes the person would get, IMHO, a much bigger effect than the reveal of a card.

But I don't want it to seem like I'm saying the effect as it stands is not good. I use playing cards very sparingly and don't usually carry them, but my photographs I have with me all the time.

Steve
Martin Pulman
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Oh I see Sean. If you don't like an effect it is down to your inability to perform it. Presumably if you do like it, the same logic applies and it is down to your superior performing skills and nothing to do with the effect?

I hope you can see it is silly for you to bring my personal performing ability into the discussion. I think we should stick to objective arguments rather than ad hominem ones.
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On 2013-06-05 12:01, Stephen Young wrote:
I think It's a good thing that the same effect can be a fantastic worker for one performer, but leave another underwhelmed.

We all have different styles, personas, even audiences.
Personally I very much like effects that leave a lot of room for "tweaking"
It means that not everyone is performing a carbon copy of the same routine.

To answer Martins' earlier question about performing to one person using my Photo Psyche rather than playing cards.
Yes the person would get, IMHO, a much bigger effect than the reveal of a card.

But I don't want it to seem like I'm saying the effect as it stands is not good. I use playing cards very sparingly and don't usually carry them, but my photographs I have with me all the time.

Steve


I agree with you 100% Steve.

Funnily enough I love using playing cards in mentalism and think this effect is weak, tweaking or no, you don't use cards a lot and think the effect is strong, even stronger with tweaking. Just proves that mentalism is a beautifully complex art form worthy of serious debate, not only gushing praise.

Best wishes,
Martin.
Sean Giles
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Quote:
On 2013-06-05 12:08, Martin Pulman wrote:
Oh I see Sean. If you don't like an effect it is down to your inability to perform it. Presumably if you do like it, the same logic applies and it is down to your superior performing skills and nothing to do with the effect?



Nope. Never said it, never suggested it. Never implied it, certainly don't believe it.
Martin Pulman
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Phew. We are in agreement!
Sean Giles
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Quote:
On 2013-06-05 12:08, Martin Pulman wrote:

I hope you can see it is silly for you to bring my personal performing ability into the discussion.

I didn't. No idea if or how well you perform.

Quote:
Martin Pulman wrote:
I think we should stick to objective arguments rather than ad hominem ones.

Please do.
Martin Pulman
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I always try to play the ball, Sean. I am trying to make my reviews as polite as possible while remaining honest.

I can't agree with you on the strength of Mr Parker's "mundane effect". I think he has named it wisely. I can't see any way to dress it up or sell it as a strong effect on its own. I think the weakness, and it is, in my opinion, pretty weak, is in the ebook, not in the performer. Even Mr Canasta would struggle to sell that part of the effect on its own.

But Mr Parker doesn't intend it to stand alone. It is only one part of the overall effect which is why the posts above claiming you can perform this one on one are, in my opinion, rather wide of the mark.
Cristobal
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Quote:
On 2013-06-05 11:18, Martin Pulman wrote:
Cristobal,

Not sure what the winking icon means but I certainly think you have been polite. We are debating a mentalism effect, not solving the middle east conflict, why woudn't we be polite?

I'm sure it is likely most people on the Café will agree with your opinion of Memoria. I think, however, it is healthy for the Café to hear a variety of opinions, if the opinions are honestly held and not personal in nature.

Regards, Martin.


Please, simply give your opinion, but stop trying to suggest someone is trying to censure you Smile

Quote:
But Mr Parker doesn't intend it to stand alone. It is only one part of the overall effect which is why the posts above claiming you can perform this one on one are rather silly.


Memoria is not a one on one effect... Of course! But if for any reason only the "mundane" effect works this will be at least as powerful as a card divination what, in my experience, can be a very strong effect.
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