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Nudity and Ethics. That would make a good book title. Funny thing, America. Go to YouTube and you will find the worst. The Cinnamon/Milk Challenge. You'll find DOZENS of teenage girls puking their guts out for the camera! In Technicolor!

They won't do nudity, though! Show a nip? It's BANNED! Oh, but you can see a cyst being lanced with a gallon of PUS spewing all over! No censorship there! Wanna see a girl jiggle her backside? DOZENS of bikini-clad bottoms are happy to oblige! No bare bottoms though. .Damn close, but nope. That's PORN!

Double standard CITY! Man, I can watch a guy being beheaded but I can't see a beautiful womans cooter?? Not fair.

Pakar Ilusi
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No pictures of Muhammad.


"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
George Hunter
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Maybe this whole discussion is trending toward the Bizarrist genre, better discussed in the Café's "Spooky" room. If one still think the discussion belongs here, instead of there, what is the difference between Bizarre magic and Mentalism?

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On 2013-05-21 10:23, Stephen Young wrote:

But one man's artistic nude is another man's porn. I just don't want to fall foul of any unwritten guidelines, and possibly risk some reputation crushing backlash from those less open and broad minded as I am. (Emphasis supplied by Turk)



What a great inadvertent choice of words. (grin) I found humor.
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John C
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Nudes perhaps but no Elvis
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Mind Guerrilla
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On 2013-05-21 06:24, Stephen Young wrote:
I am currently at work on something that uses images which may not find approval with all performers and/or audiences.

Then those performers shouldn't use this effect. And those that do shouldn't perform it at a kid's birthday party. Smile

I'd take it even further: Have crime scene photos that show that the killer positioned the corpses to recreate the poses from their studio shots. Or maybe the killer takes the photos and mails them to the police to taunt them? Is the photographer the killer? Maybe one of the photographer's rivals? The photographer's wife/girlfriend? A frustrated model who never made it in the business? An older model who is now considered "washed up?" The ghost of a dead model whose killer was never brought to justice? Or just your basic sick puppy? (I swear I have an alibi.)
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I always consider the possibility of inadvertantly offending an audience member. May sound weird considering some of the effects I've done, but I let the "mind" of the participant create the images they want to see.

I would never show dead J.R. victims, or dead babies or dead people. Now that's just me.

When Paul Prater and I did Shutterbug, a murder mystery involving a beautiful young female "victim" and an elusive killer, we created 12 photographs and they don't show the victim alive or dead or the killer (as far as the audience knows Smile), yet the audience knows exactly what is happening because the photos show places that are part of the puzzle without showing the grisly aftermath.

I think you're nudes are very beautiful, but for a more "general" audience you don't know, I would be more mysterious in the pictures you show. It's very easy for humans to take a few bits of information and formulate a logical conclusion.

Show a room, some clothing some female accessories etc. Let the spectator formulate the facts. Now this is of course my opinion. As "dark" as Iam I would not want to see photos and have someone tell me they're dead.

That's not to say there aren't people here on the Café that have no problem with that because there are much darker performers here than me Smile.

I'm just suggesting that having an alternate option of a non-nude set of pictures that are "leading" without showing nude women that went on to become victims, will give you a wider outlet to sell the effect, and can be just as strong if not stronger.

Your "revelations" will allow the specs to create the scenes in their mind.
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Personally, what I find much more objectionable is how people believe that someone who holds a different point of view is not worth the respect and dignity you want for yourself. "Open and broad minded"?? If you refuse to consider their point of view and the thoughts and conclusions involved in that as worth as much as yours, and instead confer on them a sub-par position worthy only of mockery and disrespect, then perhaps it is your mind that is closed - that is, closed to considering that anything they say might have validity.

This is not to take anything away from who any of you are, as individuals or as performers. Nor is it to demean Steve or his hard work in either profession. It is simply an opinion that was invited from the beginning, submitted for your consideration.

I am not an "immature self-righteous idiot" - those kind prefer to stay uninformed and cast down judgements from on high. I know - I used to be one. I once denounced a world-class performer as using Satanic powers simply because I had no clue about a Himber ring or Telekinetic Timber.

I'm thinking that if your performance is "edgy" and is advertised like that, you should have very few "sensitive" people in the audience. On the other hand, if you play to a circuit like the family-oriented Fun Fair, you are rolling the dice. And probably more with the venue management than the audience members - one bad reviewer gushing over how horrid and inappropriate your show was might be some great advertising! (Wouldn't it be nice, though, to find out what they'll watch on TV or a movie??) But it also might be the one sticky point that causes the management to reconsider a second engagement.

I agree that the imagery should be appropriate for the effect and not simply gratuitous. In my opinion, unless you've set up your show that way, it would only cheapen you as a performer. A small note of warning would likely serve to cover you ethically and legally, as well as give notice to those who might not enjoy an excellent show, if only because of your choice of pictures.

Again, just my opinion. I hope it contains something usefull.
Stephen Young
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I thank you all for your thoughts and comments on this matter. Both here and those via pm.

I would just like to point out that the intention with the effect in question, is not the gratuitous use of risqué images (in the way a deck of cards showing girls in bikinis could be used in place of a regular deck for no reason other than the shock value)

Obviously I would expect every performer to use appropriate effects depending on the situation, the audience, his persona etc.
I wouldn't expect any decent performer to perform From Hell for a bunch of 10 year olds. In the same way, this effect has its time and place.
Part of the concern was also the marketing of such an effect.
(I would not be surprised if threads promoting it on forums, either here or elsewhere, could possibly be removed while threads about effects that show images of dead women wouldn't be at such risk)

I will take carefully stock of all the comments and then proceed in the way I feel best without compromising the effect.

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Do not mix "ethics" with taste. There are plenty of effects in bad taste -- but totally ethical. And, vice versa.
Gregg (C. H. Mara) Chmara

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C. H. Mara Illusion & Psychic Entertainments
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Profile of mindshrink
I might find anything wrong....but my audience ?
I had toyed with the idea of "Catch the terrorist"....combining it with a card effect using a stripper deck.....gave up.
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Profile of landmark
On 2013-05-23 00:52, Stephen Young wrote:
She said you wouldn't mind!


The only thing I would have any concern about is the feelings of the models themselves. Have they given permission for this use of their image? I would say that even if you had them sign a general release form when you first photographed them, the polite, ethical thing to do is to ask them.
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