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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts 
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Well there some trouble going on now
Later
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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My condolences to you, tommy. What an awful trouble indeed. Richard Fernandez noted:
Quote:
This incident illustrates, if nothing else, the endpoint of the social engineering of the West. It has been remarkably effective. From a certain point of view the British crowd behaved perfectly and this is the way “they” all want us to behave. The populace sheltered in place, didn’t do anything rash, talked to the perpetrators as people. They waited for the police to come and the hospital helicopter to take the corpse away. Some will doubtless get counseling to overcome their shattering experience. And, quoting C. S. Lewis, "And all the time — such is the tragi-comedy of our situation — we continue to clamor for those very qualities we are rendering impossible. You can hardly open a periodical without coming across the statement that what our civilization needs is more ‘drive’, or dynamism, or self-sacrifice, or ‘creativity’. In a sort of ghastly simplcity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful." |
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts
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Richard Fernandez appears to have ignored the brave woman who confronted one of the murderers.
What a brave, brave woman, with such courage of her convictions. |
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts
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Woland, do you think Jack Lewis would have advocated unarmed members of the public tackling two men with knives, cleavers and a firearm?
I'm not sure what point you are trying to extrapolate out of this, but as a Londoner, my focus is elsewhere today. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Hi Destiny,
Actually, Mr. Fernandez did not ignore the woman. His next paragraph: Quote:
The attackers knew they were actors in a drama — as keenly watched in their communities as on the BBC. And in that other audience they were asking, “how will the locals behave”. We know now. And that other audience may derive an entirely different lesson from this tableau. “See? Only their women act like men. They follow orders. They are nothing any more — these Westerners. They are a civilization whose core has been destroyed.” Hi tomsk192, Yes, I think that Mr. Lewis would have respected and approved of a brave defense by British members of the public, even if unarmed, faute de mieux. Of course the disarmament of the public is part of the process that has taken the West to this point. I am not trying to "extrapolate" anything out of this, I am just trying to draw out the significance of what has happened. If you had told the 3rd Viscount Palmerston or Churchill that a day would come when barbarians would behead a British soldier in a suburban London high street in broad daylight and that British men and women would pass by without doing anything to stop them, I think they would have been entirely incredulous. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Thanks. The Coldstream Guards is an elite infantry regiment, they are the fellows that wear the bear hats and red coats that guard the Queen etcetera, they are big fellows and very tough. I have an old friend in the regiment. I have been busy and I only know a bit of what's been on the news.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Thank you, tommy. From what I was told of their service when I visited Anguilla, I am sure that the Coldstream Guards can handle any situation.
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-05-23 06:48, Woland wrote: Hi Woland, I imagine many other historical figures would also have been horrified: Elizabeth I, Charles Dickens and Enoch Powell included. Meanwhile, most of us here are horrified. But I can't see this event as the means to argue for arming the general public, I'm afraid. What concerns me, as a Londoner, is to continue to maintain friendly relations with all responsible members of my local community, which includes plenty of muslims, who are just as outraged by this act of barbarism as am I. The EDL has taken it upon itself to chuck rocks at the police in Woolwich, whilst someone else tried to burn down a Mosque in Essex. That is the sort of mindless reaction which concerns me today. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Hi tomsk192,
Quote:
I imagine many other historical figures would also have been horrified: Elizabeth I, Charles Dickens and Enoch Powell included. I think we are all horrified at the barbarity of the attack. What I observed was that Palmerston and Churchill, inter alia, would have been incredulous to be told that such an attack would take place in broad daylight on a high street in suburban London - and that the response of English passersby would be so passive. Even more shocking is this news: Quote:
Commanders have advised troops not to wear uniform travelling to and from work or outside bases following the brutal killing of a member of the military close to Woolwich barracks. When British troops are ordered not to wear their uniforms in England itself, this is truly "The World Turned Upside Down." May I suggest, however, that Enoch Powell, although as horrified at the attack as Charles Dickens and Elizabeth I, as you say, would not have been surprised at all. For this sort of thing is exactly what he was concerned about in his famous speech of 1968 - when he was denounced as mad, dangerous, and bad. The insanely high figures he predicted for the number of immigrants in Britain have turned out to be almost exactly right, and with 600,000 indigenous ethnic Britons moving out of London like a slow stream of refugees over the past decade, he was not altogether wrong about the effects, either. |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts
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I blame their beliefs.
RIP to the victim.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Thank you, Pakar Ilusi. I think you are right.
Meanwhile, it seems that the British intelligence service was aware of the barbarian murderers: Quote:
If, as now seems likely, the two terrorists who carried out the barbaric machete attack on a British soldier in Woolwich were known to MI5, then senior officers at the Security Service are going to have a lot of explaining to do. Nothing was done to prevent the terrorism, because the police were too busy protecting consumers from dangerous cheese: Quote:
The event started in the early 1800s and sees competitors chasing the massive 1ft diameter cheese down the 200-yard Cooper's Hill near Brockworth, Gloucestershire, as they race to reach the bottom first. Good to know that the important threats are being addressed. |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts
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To be fair, the police could not have known this would happen in such circumstances.
It was just too bizarre and barbaric. The Intelligence services though, I don't know.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Hi Pakar Ilusi,
Thank you. I am simply trying to highlight the zeal with which the police prosecute trivialities, and harass basically honest, law-abiding citizens, while horrific threats are ignored, and men who continue to promote such barbarism are supported at public expense. |
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BatsMagic Inner circle New York 1052 Posts
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Isn't that the truth, Woland!
There are a lot of feelings that would be hurt if civilized societies do the right things when it comes to terrorism, and we certainly can't hurt anyone's feelings. :bat: |
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts
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I would point to the Northern Ireland Peace Process as exemplifying the possibilities available outside of matching violence with violence.
It's not perfect, but it's a good deal better than it was before. Woland, you'll be pleased to know that the uniform gaffe has been overturned. The PM is encouraging the armed forces to wear their uniforms. I too struggle with the lack of action by any men present. I do consider that many of them will have been utterly paralysed by the situation, which certainly reflects a cultural drift in England. My tendency is to jump in, but it hasn't always worked out so well. Powell's speech, by the way, is fairly extraordinary when read in full. On a positive note, I popped to the shop an hour ago, and took a wicket in a street game of cricket being played by a local Muslim family, by taking an impromptu catch. The children were in traditional dress, I was slouching along smoking a fag [cigarette]. Our community isn't all bad. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Thanks, tomsk192. I think we may actually be on the same page, or at least on adjacent pages, here. I think that encouraging members of the armed forces to wear their uniforms in public will be reassuring.
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts
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I totally agree. Today is as much a day as any other to be proud of our armed forces. We are on the same page, reading from adjacent paragraphs.
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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Have any muslim or islamic groups came out and apologized because of this or at least spoke against this horrific act?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Absolutely. Muslims throughout the world have condemned this.
See, for example: Quote:
The Muslim Council of Britain has denounced the Woolwich murder and has been joined by hundreds of Muslims who have taken to Twitter to voice disgust over the idea that Islam could have been be invoked in such a barbaric act. Here are a few of them: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse......-attack/ Sadly, though, there will always be those who blame ALL Muslims. |
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Ray Tupper. Special user NG16. 749 Posts
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Yes.
What do we want?
A cure for tourettes! When do we want it? C*nt! |
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Posted: May 23, 2013 06:02 am 
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