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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
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On 2013-05-25 02:05, General_Magician wrote: I'm very happy for you to have found an outlet in self employment. You were probably destined for that as most entrepreneurs are. But give some credit please to the hard working corporate folks who contribute just as much to society as your self-employed bretheren do. There is room for advancement in corporate ranks at all levels, except to those who wear their discontent on their arms and run to a union for relief. By the way, do you have employees? Do you provide health care and pension benefits to them? How would you feel if they wanted to organize a union in your company, and finally, how much vacation do you offer them?
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-05-25 02:21, Payne wrote: You have no point to prove. We can discuss this till my kingdom comes and yours lies in waste and ruin, but no one wins this discussion sir. Or are you so averse to opposing opinions that you would have me slain for mine?
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Quote:
There is room for advancement in corporate ranks at all levels, except to those who wear their discontent on their arms and run to a union for relief. By the way, do you have employees? Do you provide health care and pension benefits to them? How would you feel if they wanted to organize a union in your company, and finally, how much vacation do you offer them? I do not have employees, but I have hired help though (independent contractors, I can't afford to hire employees plus I do not see the need for W-2 employees at this point). Most of the time the help I hired was good, but you have to watch the people you hire and be sure they do a good job. I had to let go of one person I hired as an independent contractor. Your company is liable and when you hire people whether they are employees or an independent contractor, their actions that they do in your company's name could get you and your company in trouble, so you have to keep an eye on them when they perform services for your company. I do not have the overhead costs that a big corporation has (though I do have overhead costs like most businesses), so, obviously, it is fair to say, that I do not contribute jobwise as much to the economy as many of these corporate employers. But I do enjoy being self employed and I think it's very rewarding.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2889 Posts |
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On 2013-05-24 18:06, tommy wrote: The EU isn't that old you know. Your point would only be true if you can show that these countries DIDN'T offer these perks BEFORE the EU was formed.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
What are you talking about "your point"
There is no point, it's just a fact that a lot of those places are in the EU and they are governed and told what to do by the EU big brother and probably told a minimum that they must give. Which looks like 20 to me. I guess. The only point is that places like Greece have no choice about giving less days if they wanted to. They must give at least 20 days, by the look of it according with EU parliment rules etc.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
Interesting to note Germany's position in that graph. It's an extremely productive nation.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
Denmark 39.5
Austria 38 Sweden 36 Slovakia 35 Luxembourg 35 France 35 Germany 34-39 Portugal 34 Czech Republic 33 Slovenia 33 Italy 32 Spain 32 Greece 32 Poland 31 Finland 31 Bulgaria 31 Belgium 30 Hungary 30 Romania 30 Ireland 29 Netherlands 28-29 UK 28 Source: Incomes Data Services 2007 The UK is set to stay at the bottom of the league for holiday entitlement in the European Union even after a rise to 28 days in April 2009, a survey warns. A change in EU rules means the UK will have to stop counting its eight public holidays towards the EU 20-day minimum. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6943667.stm And the only point here is that I was right in my guess about there being a EU 20-day minimum rule.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
While reading what is here it seems that the hiring process is all backwards here in the U.S. By that I mean it seems that employers should not run ads looking for people but rather the unemployed should run ads such as this.
LOOKING FOR WORK. I want a very competitive salary, I want top of the line medical coverage along with 3 weeks vacation to start. Vacation time off should increase by 1 week every 3 years until it reaches 8 weeks. Along with this I would also want a great retirement plan that I become vested in after 4 months. Salary increases every year along with all holidays off. Call me between the hours of noon (I like to sleep in) and 3 and leave your information on my new I phone voice mail. If interested I will return your call within 72 hours. I can be reached at 555-555-555 I am a hard worker with great work ethics..
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Quote:
While reading what is here it seems that the hiring process is all backwards here in the U.S. By that I mean it seems that employers should not run ads looking for people but rather the unemployed should run ads such as this. That's funny! That was good. When you are self employed you have to learn the art of the sale and you have to go out and get the customers, customers don't come to you and customers have plenty of options to choose from the competition. You have to be a very action oriented kind of guy. As far as benefits, my benefits I have to pay out of my own pocket and they are not as good as when I was employed by an employer. Plus, I have to send the state and the Feds a check quarterly to pay taxes (whereas when you were employed by an employer, your employer took the money out of your paychecks). Vacation? What's that? All the times my family went out on vacation I have been unable to go with them because I had to work. If I didn't work on the holidays, I would have some unhappy customers as I get booked on the holidays. When holiday times come around and you are self employed, guess what you will be doing while everybody else enjoys the holiday season? That's right, working. But you know, I feel great about myself and I think being self employed has helped my self esteem tremendously. I remember talking to a restaurant owner and he pretty much says the same thing as I do (when holidays roll around guess where I am going to be? working the restaurant). This coming Monday is Memorial Day, a very important holiday for me, BUT, I got a business to run, AND, guess what I will be doing this Monday which is a holiday? That's right. Working. But it doesn't bother me and I enjoy what I do and I will take some time out after my gig to pay my respects to the fallen on Memorial Day.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Odd that so many people around the world seem eager to move to a country whose Federal government does not mandate sufficient time off.
And of course there was an initiative in France, a couple of years ago, to mandate nap-taking at work, as a way of combatting the crisis of fatigue. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
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On 2013-05-25 11:11, Woland wrote: Few current immigrants to the USA come from the wealthy countries on the list. Canada and UK are exceptions, probably due to common language and a narrow credential gap.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Quote: OK. So, let's just assume that your business was profitable enough and growing to the point that you needed to hire four full-time people. I'll ask my same question once again. How many weeks vacation would you provide them and would you offer free pension and health coverage? And how would you react to those four insisting on being represented by a union?On 2013-05-25 02:42, General_Magician wrote:
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
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On 2013-05-25 11:31, Bob1Dog wrote: As an employer I would have a responsibility to my employees to either pay them enough so they can obtain their own health coverage, or include them on the companies group plan. Seeing that an rested and stress free employee is a more productive employee I would provide them with paid holidays and vacation time. I would hope that I treated them well enough that they didn't feel the need to join a union. But if they feel that they needed representation then I would let them organize. Of course this would mean that I might not get paid 1034 times more than my employees http://www.payscale.com/data-packages/ceo-income Or see my companies profits increase while my employees wages stagnate like other companies http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/03/04/rep......tagnate/ But I could sleep at night knowing that I treat my employees with respect and see them as fellow human beings rather than an easily replaced and expendable commodity that must be endured.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Quote:
OK. So, let's just assume that your business was profitable enough and growing to the point that you needed to hire four full-time people. I'll ask my same question once again. How many weeks vacation would you provide them and would you offer free pension and health coverage? And how would you react to those four insisting on being represented by a union? As far as vacation time, it would depend on if they EARNED it. I would not be happy about a union to be honest. So, you make a fair argument. Plus, vacation time is very expensive for a company and I would have to make sure my company could afford to offer such an option. Heck, I still have to run a profitable company and I need productive employees who contribute to the company and the bottom line if I were to hire employees. If those employees don't contribute to the bottom line of the company then their is no reason to hire in the first place. I reckon if you are going to be employed by an employer who is willing to pay for vacation time and good benefits given the huge cost of those benefits, gratitude is in order and complaining certainly could be viewed as very annoying. I can see where you are coming from. In some ways, since I have become self employed, I have seen myself become more like my former employers. One of my former employers I do business with because their company offers a valuable service to my company. I was treated very well by this particular company when I worked as an employee for them, though the pay wasn't great, at least it was a job at the time (and that particular job doesn't pay great anyway, but again, at least it was a job, better than nothing). That particular company always treated me well. So, since I started my own company, I have started to do business with them and that particular former employer does an excellent job and offers reasonable rates to my company, plus saves my company money. The customer service they offer is great, rates are reasonable and the service valuable and important to my company. They have certainly earned my company's business. Unions can be costly to business quite frankly speaking because when you run your own company, you are going to have overhead costs and turning a profit is difficult enough as it is without a union to turn a profit. With a union in the picture, it will make it very difficult to turn a profit. But again, I am not a big corporation either.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
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On 2013-05-25 12:28, Payne wrote: You just can't help yourself from being a very angry person. Too bad. And by the way, with regard to your statement above, you would let them organize? Sorry, but you wouldn't have any choice in the matter.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
In regards to Payne's post, I can kinda understand why workers would want to organize a union, but as a business owner, I certainly would not be happy about it and would not want a union in my workplace IF I could even afford to hire employees (hence why I hire independent contractors when I need work done that I can't do myself). Hiring employees is expensive but it would seem that a business would only hire employees if it were an investment for that company and that they were likely to see a return on investment that they spent hiring employees. Most companies cannot expand their operations and increase their bottom line without hiring employees.
I have also never seen or known of stress free or easy money. I don't think their is even such a thing as stress free or easy money. Even if you are an investor, you have to do a lot of work in researching companies before you buy ownership or stock in those companies and to do it right, that takes a lot of time and work doing the research on companies before you invest in them. And then once you do invest money in that company you become part owner and should be concerning yourself with what's going on in the company and making sure that the company is being ran efficiently and serving you the shareholder. If you are investing in individual stock or ownership in a company then you want to be an actively participating shareholder and keeping a watch on things to be sure that the company is doing it's best to provide a return on investment to the shareholders. And that can be stressful sometimes given that it is your money at risk. I just don't know of any easy or stress free money even if you are simply an investor. Such a thing doesn't seem to exist to me.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-05-25 12:28, Payne wrote: This post reminds me of a story I once heard. The soup kitchen was asking for donations and asked the man. If you had a million dollars would you give the soup kitchen $10,000? The answer was oh yes definitely. Then asking the man again if you had $500,000 would you give the soup kitchen $2,000. And again the answer was of yes I would. Then asked if your had $5,000 would you give the soup kitchen $25. The answer was...that is not fair you know I have $5,000. Just saying you guys talk a good game until you are the one paying out. This expression is very true, "Talk is Cheap". And to add. Your first responsibility as an employer is to make money. Remember that is why you went into business in the first place. So again your first responsibility is to your family. You guys make me laugh with your altruistic notions which may sound very noble and good but when faced with reality are cast aside rather quickly. That is not to say you shouldn't treat your employees well. You give them what they are worth. I have a "jack of all trades guy" working for me. No education whatsoever. He is the highest paid employee I have. He makes over $70,000 a year and I pay for his medical coverage to the tune of an additional $400/month disguised as a bonus twice a year. He picks his own coverage and while I give him less than $5,000 bonus it is understood that this is for medical coverage. He is very happy with this arrangement and he more than likely adds to it as he has a family of 2 kids. Also gets a Christmas bonus, however much less than $5,000.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
No employer can pay anybody anything unless the company survives and prospers.
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
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On 2013-05-25 20:13, acesover wrote: Aces,you hit a home run with your response. You're what the dream of capitalism is all about. It'll be interesting to see how the anti-capitalists and those of the "S" word ilk here respond. I wish you success in your business and hope to be an observer of your success in the public domain.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Mandatory vacation and holiday mandates do not seem to hamper productivity--at least as measured by GDP per hour worked.
At the high end of productivity are Luxembourg (35 days vacation +holiday minimum) Norway (27 days) Ireland (29 days) United States (0 days) Belgium (32 days) Netherlands (29 days) France (31 days) Germany (29 days) NOTE: There is some disagreement on the exact number of guaranteed vacation and holiday days, probably due to most legislation setting days relative to full-time employment. There are ranges involved. Note also, that the web is full of GDP/hour worked as a measure of productivity, but I suspect that the issue is significantly more complex than that.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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