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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Stabbed/Shattered/Pain Game routines (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Bema
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It seems that Stab/Pain Game/Shattered/Russian Roulette type routines have an inherent audience appeal because of the physical risk involved and the visceral response to certain props. I'm curious as to what mentalism "powers" are claimed, or what other basic motivations are used for these routines when spectators choose which items will be smashed, etc. (Obviously, when the performer makes the blind choice, it's easy to attribute powers.)

Is it simply fate, or an audience collectively sensing "danger"? Both performer and audience don't know the position of the dangerous element, so what's in play -- simply fate, or an audience collectively "sensing danger"? Curious to hear various approaches. I have thought about including such a routine, but not sure how to make it fit the capabilities of my persona.
Steve_Mollett
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Clairvoyance.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
eSamuels
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You are making a significant assumption in your analysis - that neither the audience nor performer knows the position of the 'dangerous object.'
However, this is one of several ways in which this type of effect can be presented.
I'd be happy to offer alternate suggestions, but only 'downstairs.'

e
Mind Guerrilla
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Clairvoyance if the performer is making the choices.

If the volunteer is making the choices it could be the power of her own intuition or it could be the performer using both clairvoyance (to locate the danger) and telepathy (to transmit that information to the volunteer).

As long as we're discussing only presentation and not method, I see no reason to move this downstairs. Although my powers of prognostication tell me that someone will soon post something discussing method. Smile
Bema
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Not discussing method, and not interested in routines where performer makes choices. No "significant assumption" is being made -- this is simply the premise upon which I'm looking for a presentational motivation. The containers are mixed and the audience chooses -- theoretically, it doesn't matter whether the performer knows or not.
Shrubsole
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It really does boil down to how you chose to present it, so I think you are approaching this the wrong way around.

You have a finished 'Trick' and only now are trying to find a peg to hang it on.

If you think of the 'trick' as just the device for making things happen, then now think about what aspect of mentalism you want to present.

Do you want:
A clairvoyance piece?
A piece that shows that you can influence the audience?
A Prediction piece?
or anything else.

Then and only then make the 'trick' fit what you want to perform. There are many methods to achieve the desired effects so pick and develop the one that demonstrates what you wanted to demonstrate in the first place.

If for instance you wanted to demonstrate Clairvoyance, then you would select a method where the 'object of harm' was hidden. You can then fully explain what it is you are doing and trying to achieve. The audience will then understand the piece and react accordingly when you achieve it.

If demonstrating that you can influence an audience member, then all items will be on display and you can use lots of word play and interaction so that you are seen to be influencing him or her.

So basically decide what it is you want to do first and then bolt on the effect that demonstrates just that.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
andyfisher
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I use a false hand and just hope for the best...ok, on a more serious note, there are so many ways in which this kind of effect might be framed. It is dependent upon who, if anyone is perceived to know where the danger lies:

The performer - no effect unless the spectator is taking all the risks which is ill advised but then the frame might be that they are picking up unconscious signals or telepathic impulses, steering them away from danger.

The spectator - body language clues being read by the performer, clairvoyance, the performer's own instinct for self preservation

No one - the self preservation instinct again, blind chance, a spirit guide or protective amulet, the wisdom of crowds.

The common denominator is that the risk of self injury is attractive - I don't think this is quite as barbaric as it might at first appear. It taps into the same narrative as Houdini's escapes and the 'all in' roll of the roulette wheel - a man faces the whims of fate and triumphs against the odds. If the performer can emerge intact, it gives us hope that any of us might win out against the chaotic forces of entropy.
'Reading people and bringing them together'

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Bema
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Quote:
On 2013-05-26 17:35, andyfisher wrote:

No one - the self preservation instinct again, blind chance, a spirit guide or protective amulet, the wisdom of crowds.

a man faces the whims of fate and triumphs against the odds. If the performer can emerge intact, it gives us hope that any of us might win out against the chaotic forces of entropy.


Thanks! An answer to the actual question! I appreciate this.
eSamuels
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It makes a great difference if the audience believes that the performer is aware of the location of the dangerous item.
This was the point I was trying to make in my earlier post.

For instance, I present the routine as a demonstration of 'influence,' having the audience member select which item I interact with.

e
Bema
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Quote:
On 2013-05-26 18:33, eSamuels wrote:
It makes a great difference if the audience believes that the performer is aware of the location of the dangerous item.
This was the point I was trying to make in my earlier post.

For instance, I present the routine as a demonstration of 'influence,' having the audience member select which item I interact with.

e


So you know where the item is, and you "influence" the spectator to choose the "empty" containers? I don't see where the risk is -- if you were to "fail" to influence them properly and knew you were about to smash your hand down on a spike, an audience is to believe that you would go ahead and knowingly do that? Perhaps I'm not understanding correctly.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2013-05-26 16:52, eSamuels wrote:
You are making a significant assumption in your analysis - that neither the audience nor performer knows the position of the 'dangerous object.'
However, this is one of several ways in which this type of effect can be presented.
I'd be happy to offer alternate suggestions, but only 'downstairs.'

e


Exactly. My four pistol version of Russian Roulette is a demonstration of mind reading. The participant randomly places numbers on the pistols while I'm blindfolded with my back turned. The audience is then asked to concentrate on the sequence of the numbers.
Bema
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Quote:
On 2013-05-26 18:55, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-05-26 16:52, eSamuels wrote:
You are making a significant assumption in your analysis - that neither the audience nor performer knows the position of the 'dangerous object.'
However, this is one of several ways in which this type of effect can be presented.
I'd be happy to offer alternate suggestions, but only 'downstairs.'

e


Exactly. My four pistol version of Russian Roulette is a demonstration of mind reading. The participant randomly places numbers on the pistols while I'm blindfolded with my back turned. The audience is then asked to concentrate on the sequence of the numbers.


I watched your routine on youtube last night. You are reading the spectator's mind as to the numbers, with a grave consequence if you fail. Not the same scenario as I presented -- just wondering what presentational approaches would apply to that scenario (4 containers, neither spectator nor performer know where the dangerous item is -- spectator chooses).

btw, you seem to have loosened up a bit since that performance decades ago!
Shrubsole
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Quote:
On 2013-05-26 18:53, Bema wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-05-26 18:33, eSamuels wrote:
It makes a great difference if the audience believes that the performer is aware of the location of the dangerous item.
This was the point I was trying to make in my earlier post.

For instance, I present the routine as a demonstration of 'influence,' having the audience member select which item I interact with.

e


So you know where the item is, and you "influence" the spectator to choose the "empty" containers? I don't see where the risk is -- if you were to "fail" to influence them properly and knew you were about to smash your hand down on a spike, an audience is to believe that you would go ahead and knowingly do that? Perhaps I'm not understanding correctly.


Well in that case, you could chose one spectator to be the sender and one to be the receiver, with you in the middle not apparently knowing where the device of harm is.

Get one spectator to secretly (Unseen by the audience or you) conceal the object. Then sit her on a chair and get them to picture where the object is and the big word "NO!". Then get someone or multiple people in the audience to chose.

A demonstration that anyone can use their mind for great things.

The audience is kept in suspense as they don't know where the object is and they also know that you don't know either.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
Chris Cheong
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I have been performing "Russian Roulette" with nails & paper bags for the past 8 years of my corporate career. Let me share with you:

I started of performing on stage as "mentalist & magician" (Still claiming that I am today) and Russian Roulette has been in the list ever since day 1. I started presenting this effect as me processing the ability of 'sixth sense'. I will ask the spectator to mix up the paper bags behind a cover (So that the audiences off stage do not know where is it). So the only one who "supposely' knew was the spectator who mix them up. And the routine goes on.......

Years later, I started switching role - I tell the spectator on stage that when someone faces danger he/she will be force to use this 'sixth sense'. So my spectator will pick which to hit and he/she hits it and I just play along the whole show. And the routine goes on.....

And then I tried many other different ways of presenting it as well...

After all these years performing in Malaysia,Singapore,India,Thailand, and other nearby country (The audiences is much different from westerner style). I realize a few things:

1) People don't give a sh%% whether you claim to be a mentalist/magician or even God...
2) People generally forget about what you did (Seriously)....
3) People don't buy ******** - so don't come out with all the psychology term because they don't understand, even if they do, they don't care. Really.

I make sure my show is:

1) No thinking needed for my audiences.
2) Easy to follow and doesn't drag everyone's time
3) Comedy & Interactive

---

These days, whenever I perform my show and even when I perform russian roulette - after the show - my client/audiences will come to me and say "I really enjoy the show, you make me laugh like crazy"

At the end of the day, if you, like me, in the corporate world and doing this for a living especially in the this part of Asian country (Our audiences is TOUGH)- you will understand.

THEY DON"T CARE - THEY JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN AND ENJOY. Like how they would go to cinema for a movie, they are not there to figure out how the director shoot or what lighting to do - they are there to enjoy the show or even there for their 'idol' because they like them.

If people like you, you will go very far.

My 2 cent worth. I hope I don't offend anyone with my point of views. I'm just sharing.
Regards,
Chris
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2013-05-27 07:29, Chris Cheong wrote:
I have been performing "Russian Roulette" with nails & paper bags for the past 8 years of my corporate career. Let me share with you:

I started of performing on stage as "mentalist & magician" (Still claiming that I am today) and Russian Roulette has been in the list ever since day 1. I started presenting this effect as me processing the ability of 'sixth sense'. I will ask the spectator to mix up the paper bags behind a cover (So that the audiences off stage do not know where is it). So the only one who "supposely' knew was the spectator who mix them up. And the routine goes on.......

Years later, I started switching role - I tell the spectator on stage that when someone faces danger he/she will be force to use this 'sixth sense'. So my spectator will pick which to hit and he/she hits it and I just play along the whole show. And the routine goes on.....

And then I tried many other different ways of presenting it as well...

After all these years performing in Malaysia,Singapore,India,Thailand, and other nearby country (The audiences is much different from westerner style). I realize a few things:

1) People don't give a sh%% whether you claim to be a mentalist/magician or even God...
2) People generally forget about what you did (Seriously)....
3) People don't buy ******** - so don't come out with all the psychology term because they don't understand, even if they do, they don't care. Really.

I make sure my show is:

1) No thinking needed for my audiences.
2) Easy to follow and doesn't drag everyone's time
3) Comedy & Interactive

---

These days, whenever I perform my show and even when I perform russian roulette - after the show - my client/audiences will come to me and say "I really enjoy the show, you make me laugh like crazy"

At the end of the day, if you, like me, in the corporate world and doing this for a living especially in the this part of Asian country (Our audiences is TOUGH)- you will understand.

THEY DON"T CARE - THEY JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN AND ENJOY. Like how they would go to cinema for a movie, they are not there to figure out how the director shoot or what lighting to do - they are there to enjoy the show or even there for their 'idol' because they like them.

If people like you, you will go very far.

My 2 cent worth. I hope I don't offend anyone with my point of views. I'm just sharing.


I kinda agree. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Decomposed
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Me too. Smile

Comedy and fun is what separates so many performers.

On my routine, I don't tell them where the spike is. It just works better with my persona. Even if a performer does know where it is, there are so many mistakes that can be made (just look at U tube).
WitchesHat
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Sorry, I know how annoying it is to make a post not relevant to the original question, but I insist on posting this any time a smash and stab is mentioned online.

If you're using any kind of smash and stab that can potentially harm yourself or others, you're morally obligated to buy this.
http://www.mjmmagic.com/store/safety-net......183.html

Okay, presentations where neither magician nor spectator knows where the nail is.

Psychological: The natural ability we have to sense danger, that prickly feeling we get on the back of our necks when someone is looking at us, those times you've suddenly been worried about someone close you you called them up and found out their in hospital. Under the right conditions and with the correct procedure beforehand, this sense can be amplified to near supernatural levels. (invisible touch or some variation of banknight could be used to establish the spectators abilities 'awakening'.)

Supernatural: A bit more in my wheelhouse, you've got clairvoyance, protective amulets or charms, pendulums, X-Ray vision (a blindfold routine beforehand could be used), remote viewing, 'super luck', psychometry etc.

I should also point out, I don't actually do any form of smash and stab, so I wouldn't know what would make a strong routine.
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