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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
You may scratch your head in disbelief. How is that possible?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2......ver-100/ Magic
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
I don't scratch my head in disbelief at all. Just visit the thread in NVMS about vacation benefits worldwide and then congratulate yourself if you believe in socialism. If this is what all of y'all socialists want, then y'alls deserve them there taxes the government imposes. Y'all want free medical care, two month vacations and pay for not working? Don't come !@#$in to me.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
So I will try with this thread to defund some of the stupid notions regarding preconceptions of what SOCIALISM and SOCIAL PROGRAMS (pensions, healthcare, education, etc) are because they are 2 different things. Yes, I know this won't be about american government spending and debt but it is about government spending on a general level throughout the western world on what is important to having a modern society. So please leave the thread HERE.
So lets start off with some differentiation. A social program =/= socialism and a lot of social programs =/= socialism. Socialism =/= Communism though it is a way which facilitates communism entering and taking power. Government spending =/= a social program. welfare state =/= socialist state. European nations =/= socialist nations. Most social programs that you see today.. and most laws that are passed with a social idea in mind, are the product of LIBERALS, CONSERVATIVES and NATIONALISTS. So lets see who figured them out first: (in the mid-to-late 1800s) Universal healthcare -> conservative. Disability and accident pensions -> conservative Social security -> conservative These and a few more were the inventions of Otto Von Bismark of Germany. The first time they were ever made in the world. Amazing isn't it? A conservative figured them out. You know why they can NEVER be called SOCIALIST measures? Because Bismark held socialism in such disdain that he enacted ANTI-SOCIALIST laws the first chance he got. Lets move on. Early XXth century. In England. Free school meals -> liberal Shorter work hours and job security -> liberal health insurance -> Liberal Agricultural subsidies -> liberal Public libraries -> liberal. Coal mining regulations -> liberal Lets not forget who enacted social reforms for equality and such. How about voting rights for women. Did the socialists do it? No, they didn't. It was either liberals or conservatives depending on the country... liberals did it in Finland first if I remember correctly in early XXth century. So. Socialism hasn't give us nothing in terms of free healthcare, social security, pensions, state sponsored education, shorter work hours, job security, contract negotiation etc. It did popularize the notion of unions, especially public sector unions.... and its big brother, communism, popularized the idea of "food stamps" or vouchers for people to collect their quotas of food and supplies by standing hours in line. But other than that. No. Nothing. So to call such programs socialist programs is to do what the socialists want you to do and that is to give them credit for good things that they did NOT give to the world. So don't do it. http://www.debatepolitics.com/government......ams.html
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
"Socialism" is used today as "Communism" was used in the '50s, "Anarchism" in the 1890s and "Witchcraft" in the 1600s: as a boogeyman term applied to anything you didn't like.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Unless you are a communist witch.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote: '
On 2013-05-27 01:07, tommy wrote: Tommy- I've got to give credit where credit is due. That was a brilliant post! It's all too easy to attach labels to people and then attack the label, rather than to have rational and substantive discussions. I don't call people I disagree with "fascists." So I'd appreciate not being called a socialist simply because I believe in social programs. Thanks again for your post. |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
And pure BS from a left wing perspective.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-05-27 01:07, tommy wrote: Struck a nerve did I? Sorry but you don't convince me. Nor do I convince you. Not my problem, but yours. I don't need convincing, I pay taxes and see the waste in our American social programs as they become strangling to our economy. I don't want my America to be like your UK and Europe. I like my America perfectly well the way it has been since post WWII up until the latter part of the 20th century. I'll give y'all socialists credit though, you have a lot of patience and have been working on us for decades. And you'll win. The US will be a socialist country and I'll happy to be dead at the time, much to your pleasure, I'm sure. Americans have given more than 650,000 lives supporting y'alls on that side of the pond and other places through history and all you can do is condemn us for the liberties we enjoy. I'm sick and tired of it. And I'm sick and tired or my country fighting the battles of other countries. Y'all Brits would be speaking German if it wasn't for the Yanks as much as you hate to hear that. When you can see that from my American perspective, I'll listen to you, but you don't have a clue friend. And I'm done here. As you asked in your first paragraph, I'm leaving the thread HERE! Now you can continue with your blather. I'm gone.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Okay. Sorry to see you've reverted to the "socialist" name calling.
BTW- it's MY America too, you know. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Bob in my opinion socialists are welcome in my America. isn't that sort of the whole point of a melting pot and in freedom to be who we are?
I am mot saying you are one. Just that if anyone is I find it ok. I may not agree but nothing wrong with it either.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Sorry Bob1Dog but you are wrong.
I was not trying to convince you of anything at all. I was merely pointing out a few interesting facts about the word SOCIALISM. As for my first post I thought it an interesting that people can be paying over 100% tax. Nothing more or less.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Over 100% seems steep.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-05-27 01:07, tommy wrote: Great post, Tommy.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
I applaud the French. They led the way with their Revolution 220 years ago, and they are doing it again now.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-05-28 00:40, tommy wrote: The original story is a little deceptive, though. The tax rate is only so high this year as a one off, in order to reverse a rebate from the prior year. So the actual tax being paid on earned income will still be below 100%. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/1......20130518 "[T]he exceptionally high level of taxation was due to a one-off levy last year on 2011 incomes for households with assets of more than 1.3 million euros ($1.67 million). President Francois Hollande's Socialist government imposed the tax surcharge last year, shortly after taking office, to offset the impact of a rebate scheme created by its conservative predecessor to cap an individual's overall taxation at 50 percent of income."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-05-27 01:07, tommy wrote: I also enjoyed that post from debatepolitics, but it isn't completely correct. In particular, Bismark did not invent all of the things he is given credit for. Certainly social security programs of sorts existed prior to his. I've read that he was the first to implement them on a national level, though.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Yes, and do you know why the Prussian government set the retirement age at 65?
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-05-28 20:43, Woland wrote: Why do you think? Based upon what I have read, it didn't. At least, not initially. But there is a myth that it did because 65 was Bismarck's ages at the time (he was actually about 74). Another story is that 65 was selected because at the time many people were dead by that age. But 70 was the original retirement age.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Interesting discussion about retirement ages:
http://www.dangardner.ca/index.php/artic......about-65 And the SSA's take on age 65: http://www.ssa.gov/history/age65.html
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Hi balducci,
I think it had to do not with dem Eisernen Kanzler's age, but with general life expectancy, which was, at the time, rather less than 70 years. And as noted in the article you helpfully linked, for those who were fortunate to reach the age of 70, very few years of life were left. The point being that 3 decades or more of retirement would have been unimaginable. And recognized as unsustainable. A vous de jouer . . . . |
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