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cafeinst Elite user 489 Posts |
My wife thinks so. She has experience with theatre, but she is not a magician. I told her that 20th Century Silks needs to be presented with an explanation. You have to tell the audience that the yellow scarf was transported in between the two red scarves. The trick is too complicated for the spectator to come to this conclusion on his own. (By the way, I change the yellow scarf into a red cane and then show that the yellow scarf is tied between the two red scarves.)
Who is right? It's hard to understand how the audience thinks when you know what happens. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Your wonderful wife is correct, you are in error.
Such magicians as Ade Duval and Tony Marks has performed 20th Century Silks silent for many years professionally. Just to name 2 off the top of my head. |
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cafeinst Elite user 489 Posts |
Thank you Bill,
My wife will be happy to hear this. |
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cafeinst Elite user 489 Posts |
I found this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-4uPVHOzDs A little more than 3 minutes in, it looks like Ade Duval is doing the 20th century silks, although some of it is cut out.
I would be happy to see any other videos of magicians performing the 20th century silks with music. |
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cafeinst Elite user 489 Posts |
Another question: As I said before, I vanish the yellow silk by changing it to a red cane. The yellow silk is a diamond cut yellow silk (in order for the silk to cane effect to work), not a square cut yellow silk that ends up between the two red scarves. The diamond cut silk a bit smaller than the square cut yellow silk, perhaps half the size in area. My wife says she never realized this and said it doesn't matter. But it still concerns me.
Am I right to be concerned? If so, then should I make adjustments to the silk that ends up between the red scarves? And how should I do this? |
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arthur stead Inner circle When I played soccer, I hit 1777 Posts |
I would be happy to write the music for anyone planning to perform 20th Century Silks to music!
Arthur Stead http://www.arthurstead.com |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Your wife is right again, maybe you should start listening to her. LOL
No, do not change the middle silk. I feel the same way, so I only use full size silks, but I have been fooled many times by magicians at magic conventions on the stage shows. As long as your silks are the same length from corner to corner, it is not a problem. You just don't want an obvious difference in length. |
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Oliver Ross Inner circle Europe 1724 Posts |
Scott Alexander & Puck sell a 20th Century Silk effect called "Hanky Panky" that Scott presents to music.
There's even a video link out there : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WfqDMIrS9I Oliver. |
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cafeinst Elite user 489 Posts |
Bill thank you,
I just measured the lengths of the two silks from corner to corner. Miracle of miracles, they are in fact the same length. I was surprised. So I won't change anything. As long as the spectator doesn't notice, there is no logical need to change. It also always bothered me that one of the red silks is not really tied to the yellow silk. Yet, spectators never notice this either. |
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Bob Sanders 1945 - 2024 Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
I like your wife's thinking! Although I am new to this (54 years as a profession entertainer and 52 years as a magician), I agree with her. Magic is only a tool available to theater.
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
That's how I do it.
Mister Mystery
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Bob Sanders 1945 - 2024 Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
I suspect that most pros do use music. Again, it is part of theater.
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
I've been doing it since 1946. At first with awful hokey patter about 'Yellow Joe -- or-- The Gangster's Waterloo" ~!!!!!~ I was too young to realize how bad it was! After a dozen shows, I began to realize it!!! I dropped it.
As I studied and learned (and matured--I think!) I developed a routine that, over the years has become so strong that it is NEXT TO CLOSING in the elementary school age program. It runs 3 minutes, but can be padded out to run about 6 minutes. It gets a show stop laugh. --and a big mitt! And, it uses only the silks and a GIMMICK (not a visible prop (such as a ch***e b*g) to vanish the rainbow. It didn't happen overnight! For me, it's a "talk trick". I never tell them that the rainbow silk is going to disappear and appear tied between the other silks! However, to answer your original post, I agree with Bill Hegbli. I never saw Ade Duval work (except on video), but I did see Tony Marks, and it was a delight! The 20th C. is an effect (thanks to Frank Ducrot, whom I believe originated it) that "answers" 8 of my 9 criteria for a practical effect. I have worn out a lot of silks!!!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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cafeinst Elite user 489 Posts |
I am in the process of building a new show. I used to perform the 20th century silks just after doing lots of introductory flash tricks to music. Now, I am planning to use it in the beginning of my show, without music but almost silent. I first introduce myself, "Welcome, ladies and gentleman, my name is Craig Alan." I tie the two red scarves together and put it in a glass. I get out the yellow scarf. I say, "And I am going to amaze you..." I change the yellow scarf into a red cane. I then say, "and amuse you." And then I pull out the red scarves with the yellow one tied in between.
My wife says this looks great, has both steak and sizzle. The first routine should be able to get everyone's attention and I think this does. What do you all think? |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Sounds good to me. Of course, the audience will give you a much more valuable response!!! They are your best "judges".
BTW: Thurston would have his wife sit out in the audience and make notes--especially if there was a new effect in the show. Oh! HEAVENS!!! You left out those 'important', and classical lines: "I am now tying these two red SILKS together with this square knot! Also, missing: I will now place these two SILKS in this ordinary, unprepared glass! Hee hee!!!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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cafeinst Elite user 489 Posts |
Are they silks or are they scarves?
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arthur stead Inner circle When I played soccer, I hit 1777 Posts |
Dick: About leaving out those "important" lines ... you forgot about "nothing up my sleeves" and "as you can see, my hands are empty ..."
Caféinst: I prefer calling them scarves. Bugs me when magicians nowadays still call them "handkerchiefs." Arthur Stead http://www.arthurstead.com |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Arthur! My mind was wandering! (not to worry, it's too weak to go very far!)
Hee Hee>>> the rest of the line about nothing up my sleeves: "...except my elbows, and I've had those for years!" --Oh some of those old lines die hard!!! And>>> ..."my hands are empty --as a magicians purse!" I guess I'm really showing my age when I remember that awful stuff! Maybe thee and me should write a patter book with all those horrible clichés! Yes~! to thee and Caféinst, also. "silks" is definitely a backstage word. That's why I capitalized the words in my post. Scarf or scarves is a much better term. I think what happens is that too many 'magicians' use the catalog term when they perform. "For my next trick, I will "attempt" (yes!) the 20th Century SILKS trick." YUK!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3662 Posts |
I feel the same way about the words scarf and handkerchief but I can't help but notice that many silks are simply too small to be considered any kind of scarf.
If they are too small to be any kind of scarf I'm left with the less appealing silken handkerchief option. Kids have very little understanding of these terms and I don't wish to erode their tenuous hold on the language any more than I must. -Mary Mowder |
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Anatole Inner circle 1912 Posts |
The debate about whether to use the word "silk" to mean "handkerchief" or "scarf" has been going on for a _long_ time. I feel that it is something that magicians obsess about and that lay people would find ludicrous to hear us discussing it. I've pointed out before that it is an insult to the audience's intelligence to think that they are befuddled when a magician uses the word "silk" when presenting a trick using "scarves."
The use of the word "silk" to mean "silk handkerchief" is a grammatical device (called "metonymy") that is acceptable in everyday speech. It is a device that has been used by human beings almost since the beginning of language. Basically metonymy is a way to use a part of something to represent the whole. When we hear someone say, "I read something interesting in the paper today" we don't think they're talking about something they found inside a sheet of paper. When we hear someone say, "A new report is coming in from the Pentagon" we know it is coming from people and not a building. In reports from England about Queen Elizabeth, when we hear something like "The crown has made it clear that such behavior is unacceptable" we know that they're talking about Elizabeth and not the circular thing-a-ma-jig on her head that has mysteriously grown a mouth and vocal chords. When we turn on the TV on Sunday to watch a show called "Meet the Press," we do not expect to be introduced to a machine. Gimme a break! And give your audiences credit for at least a modicum of intelligence that can make intuitive leaps of comprehension! ----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
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