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Torquay22
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I have read the royal road to card magic and looked at expert card techniques and erdinase expert at the card table all kinda have the same stuff in them. What book should I read next to get more advanced and get more advanced tricks
Count Lustig
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There are no more advanced books than Expert Card Technique and The Expert at the Card Table. There are books with equally advanced material, but none with more advanced material. If you’ve mastered everything in those two books you should write your own book.

Also, if you put Royal Road to Card Magic in the same category as the other two books, an awful lot of what you read must have gone over your head.
Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2013-06-23 05:11, Torquay22 wrote:
I have read the royal road to card magic and looked at expert card techniques and erdinase expert at the card table all kinda have the same stuff in them. What book should I read next to get more advanced and get more advanced tricks

Adding to what Count Lustig stated here and offering a thought in addition if you don't mind.

It seems to me that you are hung up on method when effect is the most important consideration. Don't believe me, read Vernon and Annemann among many. (There, two suggestions already Smile ). If you want to be advanced technically that's fine but echoing Count Lustig I wonder if you have closely read Expert at the Card Table and Expert Card Technique. You state that you "looked at them." There is a huge difference between close reading and merely looking.

That said, if effect is what you're after, advanced technique does not equal strength of effect. Maybe a good read for you would be Strong Magic and Designing Miracles, two great books by Darwin Ortiz. There are no tricks in these fine books but they are essential reading for other reasons. Some of the strongest effects in magic do not depend on advanced technique whatsoever. Which leads me to yet another book suggestion: The Classic Magic of Larry Jennings. This book is a compendium of great magic from one of magic's greats and the range of difficulty runs from so-called "self-working" to quite advanced sleight of hand. One of the strongest effects in the book is an effect called "Impossible!" Guess what? It is essentially a "self-worker."

But if you are interested in merely learning technique, there are tons of books and other resources out there. If you want to master the center deal, Greek deal, etc., there are plenty of books and DVDs, etc. for you. But what good is getting really "advanced" when effect is everything? An audience should not even know that you are performing difficult sleight of hand any more than an audience should know you are using gaffs, mathematical principles, memorized decks, or "a hundred other pleasant conceits" to borrow a line from Reginald Scot.

I have no idea how long you've been in magic, so, if the following does not apply to you, perhaps it will apply to someone else reading. Many beginners get hung up on methods. They learn sleights out of context. So let's say you can second deal as well as Simon Lovell for instance. What does that mean in the context of effect if you have no effect - your own or the creation of another? I had a student who felt that he shouldn't try to perform magic for others because he didn't yet master the most difficult sleight of hand. I did Lorayne's Poker Deal which has no sleight of hand for some spectators while he was present and nailed the audience and him badly.

You have a few avenues open to you. You can look for books with sleight of hand as "advanced" as ECT and EATCT. By Forces Unseen by the recently passed on Ernest Earick immediately comes to mind. You could study all of Ortiz's books that contain tricks such as Cardshark, Scams and Fantasies, and Darwin Ortiz At the Card Table for instance. Jim Swain's Miracles of Card Magic and 21st Century Card Magic will keeep you busting your knuckle for eons. Art and Ardor at the Card Table by Marlo and Nuzzo is a tough book. Richard Turner DVDs contain insane sleight of hand. But get this: virtually every great sleight of hand artist has created sleight light or sleight free effects that are centerpieces in their formal shows.

You could broaden your horizons and study Aronson and Bannon to name a couple. Neither are advanced sleight of hand practitioners but never ever believe that they are not great magicians. Moreover, Nick Trost and Stewart James have created powerful effects that I guarantee would fry you badly not to mention your spectators.

Mick Ayres, a full time and very gifted pro who works for Disney at Hilton Head has commented numerous times on the quality of effects in Steve Beam's Semi-Automatic Card Tricks series. He has even posted that he would gladly sit down with any magician who doubted these effects and show them what they are missing.

Count Lustig made a wonderful observation in that if your read the three books you mentioned, and I believe he means closely studied them and mastered everything, then yes, you should write your own book. So here is a challenge for you: create an effect using these sleights: a top change, diagonal palm shift, and bottom deal. You are limited to these three sleights only. What can you create?

Last bit: John Mendoza has stated time and again that if a magician would master just one-third of The Tarbell Course in magic, that magician would be one of the top magicians in the world. The same goes for ECT and EATCT.

So my question to you is quite simple, "what do you want to do in magic?"

Namaste,
Vlad
Torquay22
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Wow thanks I think I'll look at expert card techniques in actual depth now as truthfully I just skimmed over it then just looked at the tricks section. Ill also have a look at the books you suggested, that should keep me busy for a while I'm such a slow reader
motown
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Have you read the 5 Volume Card College series. This might be a better avenue.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
– Karl Germain
Atom3339
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Another phenomenal post, Vlad. A RESOURCEFUL post that should be studied, pondered many times. MANY times.

Count, more advanced card technique: Don't forget Buckley's Card Control.
TH

Occupy Your Dream
PaulSharke
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Quote:
On 2013-06-23 11:28, motown wrote:
Have you read the 5 Volume Card College series. This might be a better avenue.


I can't recommend Card College enough! Roberto Giobbi (and his English translator) really did a wonderful job, precise and detailed. The downside is that there are five volumes, and as far as I know they're all out of print. A shame!
nooner
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I don't know about Card College being out of print, but they are easily obtainable from numerous online vendors. They also show up here and on the auction site for less than retail cost.
Xaerius
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I agree with Vlad. I think you should really take a look at Darwin Ortiz's Strong Magic and Designing Miracles.

After you've really gotten the card techniques down from Expert Card Techniques and Expert at the Card Table, and seek to improve the strength of your material, the 2 books will help a lot by providing presentation techniques and ideas to really help sell your effects.

With that said, the 2 advanced books mentioned should really be studied in detail. If you wish for a more detailed study of Erdnase's Expert at the Card Table, I recommend the Annotated Erdnase by Darwin Ortiz, which includes the whole text of Expert at the Card Table, along with Darwin Ortiz's modern update and insights on Erdnase's material. I personally got a copy off Magic Geek. http://www.magicgeek.com/annotated-erdna......ook.html

Nigel
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