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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Is magic an "Art"? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Nate The Magician
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Quote:
On 2013-07-29 17:09, Jiceh wrote:
An other way to view it :
- if the magician is an artisan
- if the spectator is easily affected by artisic things (in other words if he/she is an "artist"),
= the performance of magic can also be artistic

Magic is an art. What can magic be if not an art?


Social awkwardness disguised as entertainment?
Nate The Magician
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Quote:
On 2013-07-29 18:15, Zuke wrote:
Wow, there were quite a few sweeping generalisations in that video, in particular John Bannon's segragation of birthday magicians from corporate magicians. In my experience art can be found in all the performance arenas of magic. On the contrary, there is clearly a LOT of magic that isn't art.

Buying a prop from a magic shop, reading the instructions and then showing (and consequently fooling) someone, is not art. These clips however ARE art in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70U2yybKhKg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=405xMmDpCZs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjqO4HWZSiQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkYNAwdFH9M


Don't forget the old masters!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVe7chIgn0w
BeThePlunk
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For me, Eric Mead at 3:15 hits the answer exactly when he distinguishes between craft and art. His subsequent clips through are also great extensions of that thought.

That really is the correct answer and it applies to all of the "arts". Think of great musicians. Their fingers can run the notes of a great concerto in their sleep. It's a mechanical skill and muscle memory until. The "art" comes at the time of performance.
Mario Morris
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I agree with you Eric Mead hits the nail on the head.
Yellowcustard
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The video mentioned magic begin a skill. Skill begin the able to achieve somethings and as mentioned in the film it can be high or low level. The film also spoke about Magic is a craft we take several things and make something beautiful again the level can vary.

But is it art?

A few people seemed to agree that it need to go to a other level to become art. I need more than a oh reaction. It almost has to rock someone at the foundation emotional or to make them feel they have been to or witnessed something and a core level.

I don't see every thing I do magically as art. II seen some magican perform art. But some pepole that watch me have left feeling they have wittinsed a pice of art
Enjoy your magic,

and let others enjoy it as well!
TheAmbitiousCard
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Of all the many forms of performance/entertainment/art that exist: music, painting, sculpting, dancing, magic, singing, ballet, acting, opera, etc......

Magic is the ONLY one where complete newbies feel they are worthy to go out and charge money for their talents just a few weeks/months after learning a self-working trick or two.

Imagine a singer, piano player, trumpet player, guitarist, painter, sculptor, ballerina, ... charging for their talents just a few weeks/months after beginning their study. It would be preposterous and laughable.

For some reason... as soon as a "magician" learns a few tricks on YouTube, they're off to Kinkos to get business cards and they start blabbing about how they feel about.... "their art"..... "magic"... on the internet.

NO wonder we're not taken seriously... ushered in to babysit the children... and asked to perform for free for the opportunity of nothing but exposure.....

You're an artist when you've made a difference and people take notice. Have you? Probably not.

Let's stop flattering ourselves.
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BeThePlunk
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I hate the term "magic trick" and I think that the idea of doing "tricks" gets everything off on the wrong foot. "I tricked you with coins, now I'll trick you with balls, pretty soon I'll trick you with cards, can I borrow your ring..." Burst, burst, burst.

I think that putting magic into the context of a story or the development of a theme can go a long way toward elevating a performance. I'd offer Ricky Jay's "History Lesson," Suzanne's cups and balls parable, David Copperfield's flying, Rene Lavand's 3 Bread Crumbs (with its poetry), and even Slydini's 3 balls in the hat (with its exaggerated, dance-like arm motions set to music) as examples that stand apart in this way. Each one develops slowly and gives the sense that something larger is being generously offered to the audience of which the "trick" is essential but not the only point.
Yellowcustard
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Frank Starsini I agree with you magic dose seem to be prone to people learning a basic effect then heading of for paid gigs. Yet other art form do have a aspect of this asweel. There are many art galliers in sea side towns full of bad water colors done by evening class artist. I have also herd very bad Pub singers aswell.

But yeah I think magic suffers from this
Enjoy your magic,

and let others enjoy it as well!
Poof-Daddy
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Magic is an art when a skilled magician performs it. Well...its always an art but sometimes there is "bad" art (performed by less skilled artists).

I would place it under the catagory of Performnce Art and in the hands of a skilled and well practiced magician, it can be a thing of beauty - Art, if you will... yet performed by a person who walked into a magic shop and placed $20.00 on the counter, glanced at the directions and went out to perform it in the bar for free drinks an hour later... not so much. Of course this is the same guy who 3 beers later is already telling everybody how he did it just to make himself feel smarter than them. (And the secret costs another beer). I think we have mostly all seen the type. The type being one who gives the art of magic a bad name.

As with art, there are also many styles... some are surreal, some modern, some interpretive. And yet some are tried and true "paint by numbers" that are proven and stand the test of time over and over again. (An example of say - a twisting the aces routine using the same patter you learned on an old Ammar tape 20 years ago but still amazes now as much as it did back then.)
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Eric Evans
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Nice responses here; I've enjoyed reading them.

As to my feelings on the subject, they might be summed up rather simply:

Magic is an Art only so much as you treat it so.
BeThePlunk
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This is a wonderful and thought-provoking thread. I think Art:

1) is characterized by a high level of skill. The skill is so perfected that the performance seems effortless.
2) is interpretive. With skill mastered, the artist has space and energy for interpretation and interaction.
3) is a gift. The audience's pleasure is the final goal, not the performer's ego.
4) is generous. The "gift" is more than it had to be; it shows care and consideration. The audience is fully satisfied, they remember the artist fondly, and they are likely to come back for more.
Keith Mitchell
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There is no "one way" to explain art, it means different things to different people, and therefore we have to define art within ourselves. I am convince that Magic is art and anyone can be an artistic Magician.
Paddy
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I thought this topic was related to busking not whether magic is an "art" or not. Mods please move this to appropriate topic
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Ekuth
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Thread title clearly outlines the subject of the post, Paddy.
Plenty of things have been discussed here that have nothing in direct relation to busking.

I'll refrain from commenting on the sour grapes feel of several of the responses here, and simply answer the title of the thread:
Is magic an "Art"?

Yes.

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The Mighty Fool
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Quote:
On 2013-11-29 02:06, Frank Starsini wrote:
Of all the many forms of performance/entertainment/art that exist: music, painting, sculpting, dancing, magic, singing, ballet, acting, opera, etc......

Magic is the ONLY one where complete newbies feel they are worthy to go out and charge money for their talents just a few weeks/months after learning a self-working trick or two.

Imagine a singer, piano player, trumpet player, guitarist, painter, sculptor, ballerina, ... charging for their talents just a few weeks/months after beginning their study. It would be preposterous and laughable.


It's not so much that newbies "feel they are "worthy" (LOL this is magic, not KNIGHTHOOD!) to charge money, but simply that they CAN. A few weeks / months of practice is enough time to make your skills passable. Mabye not for Vegas, but doing tricks on the corner...sure. If you took 3 months of Ballet and then tried to get yourself signed to a dance company, or Julliard, or simply get an agent and demand money for your dancing---it WOULD be laughable & preposterous, and unsuccessful. If you practice magic for 3 months (gimmicks or no) and take your act to the street / bar / restaurant etc., you can get paid...absolutely.

And this dosent necessarily cheapen magic as an art compared to all the other arts listed in the above quote.

Singers: There are hundereds of singers whove landed gigs / recording deals with little or no practice at all...just the right combination of looks, presentation and promotion.
Painters: Oh PLEASE! Don't get me started! There are so many "great" artworks which have sold for $$ which look like something a 4-year old could've done in about 3 minutes----on accident!
Sculptors: This is hard to believe, but it's true--some people just have this weird talent for making shape from clay / stone. And besides, to a lesser extent the same rule of painting applies to sculpture. I've seen 'sculptures' on display which look like the stone wasn't sculpted so much as ATTACKED by some drunk lunatic, but hey--put it on a pedestal and rivet a plaque to it & all of the sudden it's fine art!

However, musicians (piano / guitar / trumpet) & dancers....yes, those fields do take a great deal more practice & dedication before anyone will pay you to do them (Well...with dancing, if youre willing to take off your clothe whilst doing it.....) I guess there are some arts which can be picked up relatively quickly......but they are still art!
Everybody wants to beleive.....we just help them along.
The Mighty Fool
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As for the video itself:

I say: YES, magic IS an art.

This video says: YES, magic IS an art, BUT ONLY IF YOU DO IT IN THE EXACT SUBTLE ETHERAL VAUGE MANNER WHICH WE DO!!!!! If you DARE do it any other way, youre NOT a magician, youre a PORNOGRAPHER!!
Everybody wants to beleive.....we just help them along.
tboehnlein
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As it depends on the eye of the beholder.
Mr. Danny
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Art? It can be!
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