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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Steals, loads and misdirection (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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RJH
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Finland
477 Posts

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Amado,, I like the idea with the bucket. I'll get some serpent silks and start experiementing! I don't have Art of Card manipulation and honestly I'm not going to get it, I have so many card manipulation DVDs and all the material that is covered in art of card manipulation is somewhere in those DVDs.

RJH
Bill Hegbli
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Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
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I never understood why the magicians in the Europe use a metal bucket for their cards and a hat for their coins. Very opposite from what the books suggests, except of course T. Nelson Downs who use a hat for his coins.

The immediate thought that comes to my mind is that the metal pail will damage the corners of the cards as they hit the bottom and sides of the pail. It does seem illogical to use a container that does not meet the needs of the items/props being used. Mainly, coins thrown into a pail make the noise necessary to "prove" they are real metal coins.

The old descriptions tell of the performer placing a metal plate in a hat so the coins can be "heard" as they hit the bottom of the hat and plate.

As for cards, in my opinion it makes for sense to place them in a hat or net as Norm Nielsen does or did in his famous act. With cards visual is used to see the cards as they begin to overflow from the hat. No sound is necessary, so why use a metal pail? The softness of the hat material is easier on the corners of the cards, thus making them reusable for future shows, and months of use.

In Lewis Ganson's descriptions of his routines he used a hat for coins and pail for cards. I which he was around to tell us his thinking behind his decision to do so.

The German magician and mentalist Ted Lesley uses a bucket in his act to store a deck of cards, a glass, and piece of rope. I found that puzzling as well.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
elliottmagic
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As for clips, for my bb act I use a loading belt. I just got some artificial flowers, duct tape and a cheap leather belt. What I did was cut off the flower and all the leafs so I have just a stem, then I sanded off all of the fake thorns, then I bent two of them in a U and then brought the two ends together, I did the same to another flower, and taped them together at the long part of the loop. Then I taped this to the belt,
This was inspired by the bb clips from fabric manipulation. I also have some of those clips, kinda pricy though.
http://www.fabricmanipulation.com
Anatole
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Bill, you wrote "I never understood why the magicians in the Europe use a metal bucket for their cards and a hat for their coins. Very opposite from what the books suggests, except of course T. Nelson Downs who use a hat for his coins... The immediate thought that comes to my mind is that the metal pail will damage the corners of the cards as they hit the bottom and sides of the pail."

I'm away from home now so can't check my library, but I could have sworn that a champagne bucket is what Lewis Ganson suggests in _Card Magic by Manipulation," and Ganson literally wrote the book on that type of act. But then, Ganson was European, although separated a little from the continent. (Can someone check either _Card Magic by Manipulation_ or the chapter by that name in _Routined Manipulation Finale_ to see what Ganson recommended?) If, as you say, Europeans seem to prefer a bucket, it would be slightly provincial of those of us in America to suggest that their preference is questionable.

If the cards are prepared per Ganson's instructions, there will be a slight bow in the cards anyway, so the odds of the corners hitting the bucket would be slim. I do, however, put a handkerchief into the bucket to slightly soften the bucket bottom. But I did that more to protect the edges of my fanning deck than to protect the cards from the productions. Also, I use a large plastic flower pot instead of a metal bucket, so the noise is muted somewhat.

Top hats are a little (dare I say) archaic, and unless you're dressed in tails or a tux, look s little out of place. Having said that, I do think Charlie Frye's card act at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaOX-GMwhqs
looks fine with a top hat even though he isn't dressed formally. But Frye's act is a little off-the-wall anyway, so the top hat juxtaposed with casual attire doesn't jar the mind.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
Anatole
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An interesting source for info on stealing is Gen Grant's lecture notes _How to Make a Living by Stealing... Doves, Of Course!_
http://dennymagic.com/store/general-gran......ves.html
Although it's about dove steals, some of the ideas might be applicable or adaptable to other items.

In addition to Grant's lecture notes there is a video set:
http://www.stevensmagic.com/shop/how-to-......l-grant/

Another good resource on dove steals is Greg Frewin's Complete Course in Dove Magic
http://gregfrewintheatre.com/gregfrewin/......gic.html

And then there's James Dimmare's "The Dove Whisperer":
http://dennymagic.com/store/dimmare-s-th......dvd.html
As the description of the Dimmare video ssys, you will learn Channing Pollock's First Bird Production and "Channing Pollock's Third Bird Production: Channing's famous production. Everyone used to wonder where the third dove in his act came from...now you'll know!"


Another good resource would be the Shimada Greater Magic videos produced by Stevens Magic:
http://www.stevensmagic.com/shop/shimada......mvl-dvd/
and
http://www.stevensmagic.com/shop/shimada......mvl-dvd/

We are very fortunate that people like Grant, Frewin, Dimmare and Shimada have offered to share what in past centuries would have been closely--and jealously--guarded secrets of the magician's art and craft.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
Anatole
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RJH, can you share with us some of the card manipulation titles that you have? If there's any in your list that I don't have, I'd like to do a search for them to see if I can find them.

One of the best card manipulation videos I have is the one by Lou Lancaster. I have it on VHS and wish it were transferred to DVD complete with menus. The IMS has a DVD by Lou, but I don't think it has as much material on it as his other videos had.

Jeff McBride spoke at Lou Lancaster's Broken Wand ceremony and said, "Much of my professional repertoire I learned from Lou. My card fans, my silent linking ring routine, my zombie, my Chinese fan work--I still perform these routines every night and pass these techniques on to my students so the spirit of Lou Lancaster lives on."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKqaifYC-Pg

Quite a tribute!

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
RJH
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Anatole, it would be a pleasure. There is a nice little routine with steals in The Evolution of card manipulation. Another great recourse would be Lewis Gansons Expert Manipulation of playing cards, but the steals are from gloves. If you want a recourse for billiard ball steals, I would say that Principles and deceptions by Buckley is great. He explains a 8 ball production routine without the gimmick. Those are the best titles I have for card steals. If you want a full list of titles where somekind of stealing is teached, just say it. Smile

RJH
genemccarthy
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This is an extremely well read group of performers.

I have had Shamada, Dimmare and others including Jason Byrne on tours throughout Australiasia sand all are exquisite. I have stood backstage and been fooled by all of them. Having once performing a bird act I was always deceived by Jason Byrne's closer of producing a duck. He is one of ne of the most underrated bird acts there is. And a true gentleman, as they all are. Take a chance and look at it. Even though I know it well and am aware of 'how' the steal is done-it fools me every time!

Now that's misdirection.

gene
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