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Circusman
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On 2013-07-02 20:02, R.S. wrote:
Circusman,

Hmmm... bars, drinks, and ghosts? I think I see a connection there. Smile

As for the house incidents, all we have is your personal anecdotes to go on. Moreover, as Richard Feynman said, "the first rule is not to fool yourself... and you are the easiest person to fool." That's no flip statement. Many studies have shown how we misinterpret and misperceive the world around us - despite our strong convictions to the contrary.

Even if we grant that "ghosts" are real, we have to ask why would they choose to be pranksters from beyond? What purpose is served by occasionally flipping a light switch or knocking a picture off the wall? Have they nothing better to do? It's all rather silly. And if they can manifest themselves like that, then why not go all the way and do something like, I don't know, write a meaningful non-ambiguous message on a blackboard on demand and in full sight of film crews, skeptics, investigators, etc.? But then again, how can something non-material interact with the material world? In order for solid objects to be manipulated, an actual physical force (and not an ethereal "nothingness") must act upon it.

So not only are surviving personalities/essences of dead people improbable, but their nonsensical mischievous activities from beyond multiply that improbability significantly. I think it's safe to say that "ghosts" are nothing more than vivid human imaginations coupled with our cognitive flaws.

Ron
:)


Firstly, Ron, I do not drink - which is what you imply as the reason for these happenings.

As for a vivid imagination, then both myself, and other witnesses who saw the same things - at the same time - must have the greatest imagination in the world - and in unison. These, and many more 'happenings' continued on a daily basis for nearly seven years.

Frankly, I don't give a shiat whether you, or anyone else, believes me or not, I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
I have no reason to prove anything to anyone who doesn't walk in my shoes, nor have I anything to gain from sharing my experiences. I DO NOT LIE !

Just please do not insult my intelligence !
R.S.
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On 2013-07-03 02:50, Circusman wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-07-02 20:02, R.S. wrote:
Circusman,

Hmmm... bars, drinks, and ghosts? I think I see a connection there. Smile

As for the house incidents, all we have is your personal anecdotes to go on. Moreover, as Richard Feynman said, "the first rule is not to fool yourself... and you are the easiest person to fool." That's no flip statement. Many studies have shown how we misinterpret and misperceive the world around us - despite our strong convictions to the contrary.

Even if we grant that "ghosts" are real, we have to ask why would they choose to be pranksters from beyond? What purpose is served by occasionally flipping a light switch or knocking a picture off the wall? Have they nothing better to do? It's all rather silly. And if they can manifest themselves like that, then why not go all the way and do something like, I don't know, write a meaningful non-ambiguous message on a blackboard on demand and in full sight of film crews, skeptics, investigators, etc.? But then again, how can something non-material interact with the material world? In order for solid objects to be manipulated, an actual physical force (and not an ethereal "nothingness") must act upon it.

So not only are surviving personalities/essences of dead people improbable, but their nonsensical mischievous activities from beyond multiply that improbability significantly. I think it's safe to say that "ghosts" are nothing more than vivid human imaginations coupled with our cognitive flaws.

Ron
:)


Firstly, Ron, I do not drink - which is what you imply as the reason for these happenings.

As for a vivid imagination, then both myself, and other witnesses who saw the same things - at the same time - must have the greatest imagination in the world - and in unison. These, and many more 'happenings' continued on a daily basis for nearly seven years.

Frankly, I don't give a shiat whether you, or anyone else, believes me or not, I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
I have no reason to prove anything to anyone who doesn't walk in my shoes, nor have I anything to gain from sharing my experiences. I DO NOT LIE !

Just please do not insult my intelligence !


The second line of your post:

"In a bar where I had been booked, myself and the owner and some others were having a drink..."

And I wasn't implying that you were lying about your experiences. In fact, I fully believe that you experienced some strange incidents. It is your interpretation of those incidents that I was offering a different perspective on. Anyway, thanks for posting. I too have a few incredible (what some would call "ghost") stories in my family. I think it's a fascinating topic.


Ron
:)
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Circusman
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Ron,

Non-alcoholic drinks on my part. I'm sorry you took the meaning out of context, but I can see how that happened.

Care to share some of your family's experience ? As you say, it is a 'fascinating topic' . Have you ever had any personal experiences that you will take the risk sharing on here ?

I, twice, had an out of body experience within a two week period when I was 13 years old during dental surgery under gas. Suffice to say that I was able to describe to my mother who she was talking to - and - what she was talking about. She was in a waiting room at the far end of the building away from where I was. (More fodder for anyone who wants to shoot me down).

My point is, I am also very sceptical when I hear stories like this. But when it happens to a person directly, then there is no doubt that there are much more stranger things happen in this world than we could ever imagine.

Do I believe in U.F.O's for instance ? Yes, because I've seen them, as recently as three weeks ago.
Do I believe that people have been kidnapped by Aliens ? Definitely not. But purely because it's never happened to me. To those who claim it has happened to them, it is very real indeed.

I hope others will come on board with this and share their experiences, and not hide them. Because only then, can we build up a true picture of the wider spectrum.

The idea of scientific investigations is highly impossible, due to the fact that experiences which I've already covered cannot be made to order.
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Whatever ya' say, chief. Smile
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R.S.
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Quote:
On 2013-07-03 07:06, Circusman wrote:
Ron,

Non-alcoholic drinks on my part. I'm sorry you took the meaning out of context, but I can see how that happened.

Care to share some of your family's experience ? As you say, it is a 'fascinating topic' . Have you ever had any personal experiences that you will take the risk sharing on here ?

I, twice, had an out of body experience within a two week period when I was 13 years old during dental surgery under gas. Suffice to say that I was able to describe to my mother who she was talking to - and - what she was talking about. She was in a waiting room at the far end of the building away from where I was. (More fodder for anyone who wants to shoot me down).

My point is, I am also very sceptical when I hear stories like this. But when it happens to a person directly, then there is no doubt that there are much more stranger things happen in this world than we could ever imagine.

Do I believe in U.F.O's for instance ? Yes, because I've seen them, as recently as three weeks ago.
Do I believe that people have been kidnapped by Aliens ? Definitely not. But purely because it's never happened to me. To those who claim it has happened to them, it is very real indeed.

I hope others will come on board with this and share their experiences, and not hide them. Because only then, can we build up a true picture of the wider spectrum.

The idea of scientific investigations is highly impossible, due to the fact that experiences which I've already covered cannot be made to order.


Circusman,

Sure, first I'll relate something that happened to me, and then something that happened to my sister:

I was a 20 year old and still living at home with my parents when one day I lost my house key. That night, I knew I would be going out on the town and coming home late, so rather than wake my parents I asked my father to borrow his house key for the night. He obliged. That night I got back home around 1 AM and when I went to open the front door I was surprised to see that there was already a key in the lock just waiting to be turned. I thought this was odd as both my parents were quite security conscious and wouldn't do something like that. At any rate I turned the lock, opened the door, and went in. My parents, of course, were in bed sound asleep. I now had 2 keys in my possession - the one my father lent me plus the one that was in the door. And neither were the original key that I had lost. I thought nothing of it and went to bed. The next day I asked my father why he put another key in the door. He claimed that he did no such thing. And my mother insisted that she didn't put a key there either. Moreover, the key that was in the lock was an old style key, unlike one that we were familiar with. I never did find my original key, and we never did solve the "key mystery". Although my father is long gone, my mother and sister have always maintained that this was some sort of supernatural event. Of course, I have my own thoughts about it.


Incident #2 - My newly married sister and her husband lived with us at home for a short time until they got their own place. I was about 9 or 10 years old. One day my sister was upstairs with her firstborn infant daughter. She began to come downstairs (baby in her arms) but she tripped at the top and came tumbling all the way down. Luckily, both her and her baby were not injured, albeit quite shaken. Nobody witnessed the actual fall, but of course we all heard the commotion and came running to see what happened. When my sister regained her composure she described how the incident unfolded. She said that as she began to fall she felt something rip her arms apart. As she was tumbling she claims that she saw the baby actually FLOAT down the stairs and land gently at the bottom of the staircase. As if a guardian angel carried the baby and placed her safely on the bottom landing. Through the years, my sister has retold this story and she always insists that her baby did indeed actually and LITERALLY float that day. Of course, I have my own thoughts on this as well.


Ron
:)
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
ringmaster
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On 2013-07-01 12:31, Salguod Nairb wrote:
No.

Yes, but I'm not interested in telling you why.
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Circusman
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Thanks for opening up there Ron, and sharing these.

Great stories indeed !

Do you still have that key ?
Reminds me of a comical story that happened to a friend of mine. (nothing to do with ghost's).
He was late for work because he couldn't find his house key. He spent over an hour looking for it - only to discover it was still in the lock on the outside of the door after he'd been on a night out.

On another day, (same guy), he was rushing to go to work and lifted his phone off the coffee table.
During the day he reached in his pocket to get his phone to make a call - and discovered that, in his rush to get to work, he'd ran out with the remote control for the telly !
His workmates never let him live that one down to this day - although he's done a lot worse than that !

Bobby.
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2013-07-04 13:00, Circusman wrote:
Thanks for opening up there Ron, and sharing these.

Great stories indeed !

Do you still have that key ?
Reminds me of a comical story that happened to a friend of mine. (nothing to do with ghost's).
He was late for work because he couldn't find his house key. He spent over an hour looking for it - only to discover it was still in the lock on the outside of the door after he'd been on a night out.

On another day, (same guy), he was rushing to go to work and lifted his phone off the coffee table.
During the day he reached in his pocket to get his phone to make a call - and discovered that, in his rush to get to work, he'd ran out with the remote control for the telly !
His workmates never let him live that one down to this day - although he's done a lot worse than that !

Bobby.


You're welcome, Circusman. And yes, some 35 years later, I still do have the "mystery" key that was in the door!


Ron
:)
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Salguod Nairb
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A year ago I saw people floating above my bed and sometimes standing by my bed. I even woke up when I felt someone lying next to me. I never thought they were ghost but rather hallucinations. It was Al Angello that suggested to me that I should get tested for diabetes. Turns out that I am diabetic (type II) and since I've been on the meds there has been no more hallucinations. Though... my life has become far less surreal... Smile
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Circusman
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That's a very interesting connection there, Salguod (or Douglas).
I know people with diabetes, and I'm curious to find out if they had any hallucogenic experiences like you've had. Thanks for sharing.

Bobby (or Ybbob).
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On 2013-07-01 18:34, tommy wrote:
What is the point of a body anyway?


"Bodies are boring. I've had loads of them." - The Doctor
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Ghosts are definitely real. I'm sure I left my car keys by the front door last night but this morning they weren't there! Someone call the Randi Institute.
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A few years ago Donna and I stayed at Beltane Ranch in Glen Ellen, CA, in a house owned by Mary Ellen Pleasant back in the late 1800's. Mary Ellen was a colorful character in early SF history and known as "mysterious" and as involved in voodoo.

Anyway, so that night we were getting into bed and Donna suddenly told me she felt someone sitting on the bed next to her, as in pressing into her. It was over in a few seconds, but to this day she swears she felt it. I was on the other side, so it wasn't me. Donna isn't into magic, or ghost stories, or any of that, and wouldn't make up a story like that for all the tea in China.

Still a mystery..
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Steve_Mollett
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A mystery...but such a mystery doesn't necessarily equal "dead person," any more than "light in the sky" equals "alien spacecraft."
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George Ledo
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That's what I said... a mystery. Smile
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I would imagine that on a cosmic level, in the grand scheme of things we are probably pretty pitiful creatures...ignorant beyond imagination. Ghosts are most likely just another phenomenon we can't fathom because we're simply too primitive, so we give them a label to make us more comfortable.

(I guess that means I believe in ghosts, but want to believe they are more than that).

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I don't believe in ghosts OR gods. Lynn
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I saw a headless ghost on the side of the road and when I saw it my truck went ICE COLD and I had the heater going full blast. My friends girlfriend also saw it, my friend didn't.
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Quote:
On 2013-07-05 21:38, Wizard of Oz wrote:
I would imagine that on a cosmic level, in the grand scheme of things we are probably pretty pitiful creatures...ignorant beyond imagination. Ghosts are most likely just another phenomenon we can't fathom because we're simply too primitive, so we give them a label to make us more comfortable.


I agree with this. I believe a human being trying to understand the "grand scheme" is like a fish trying to learn calculus.
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Nope.
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