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silverking
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Two questions really, "are their ghosts", and "do you believe in ghosts".

Of course both answers require an accurate definition of ghosts.
That anyone presumes to understand everything on earth is simply ridiculous, meaning both "yes" and "no" answers are equally meaningless.

Although the answer you come up with may be important to the thinker, personal thoughts impact absolutely nothing in the physical or metaphysical world.

In other words, think what you will.......it changes nothing, and exists only in the orb resting on your shoulders.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2013-07-10 12:43, silverking wrote:


Although the answer you come up with may be important to the thinker, personal thoughts impact absolutely nothing in the physical or metaphysical world.


Then again, the pen is mightier than the sword and personal thoughts have, in fact, changed the course of history.

But even in a literal sense, according the the research of Radin, Bem and other parapsychologists, it might well be that thoughts can have a tangible effect on the physical world.
silverking
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The belief (or not) in ghosts could change the world?
Probably not.

The research you quoted isn't anything beyond "maybe", and is considered by many to be simple quackery.

Besides those two points, you're confusing the belief in something with whether it exists or not. You can, for example, believe in ghosts and there be nothing of the sort in existence......or you can not believe in ghosts, while they fly invisibly all about us.........what you believe changes nothing at all in terms of "what really is".

Even this exchange is irrelevant. Neither of us knows "what is", only what we think it is.

........many enjoy this difference in beliefs as "the spice of life".
mastermindreader
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Not confusing any points at all. Interesting that you called the research I cited "quackery." You are aware, I presume, of the late Carl Sagan's belief that more reseach need to be done regarding the apparent influence of thought on random number generators?

I don't think of him as a quack.
frankvomit
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After reading the thread I'm not going to doubt that you saw what you say you have seen. I am a believer in science and believe with rational thought everything can be explained. I had a really wild experience with LSD where it felt as though I was having an outer body experience knowing I was on LSD and knowing the effects rational thought told me that didn't really happen. but the one thing I couldn't explain was over a period of about 2 months or so people kept telling me I came to them in a dream and described to me everything I saw that night. as weird as all that sounds I prefer to have a logical explanation for it even though I haven't come up with one. but I am now open to the possibilities of the supernatural if I can see some real concrete evidence. but still they're are too many mystery's out and socalled coincidences out there to deny the possibilities.
Circusman
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I had the UTMOST respect for Carl Sagan.

I can remember rushing home from work to watch 'Cosmos' on the telly.
Now I have the full set on DVD, and never ever tire of watching them over and over again.

To me, Carl was pure and true inspiration !
Pakar Ilusi
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The belief in ghosts has changed the world, silverking.

Almost all organised faith systems believe in their existence, within their own interpretations, of course.

And faith systems don't just change but they rule the world. From wars to what you eat.

Resurrections, reincarnations and basically all afterlife beliefs point to the eternal spirit or 'ghosts'.

Now whether they can easily interact with this realm is the point of disagreement.

Ghosts are just part and parcel of faith systems.

Don't get me started on mediums and their seances!

Ghost paging systems these conniving lot pretend to be... Smile

And we haven't even touched on demons, jinns and that lot yet... Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
silverking
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Personal beliefs and various faith systems are great, but are ultimately irrelevant as far as the planet, galaxy, or universe is concerned.
Believe what you want, it changes nothing that matters beyond man's own hubris.

Things are what they are, beliefs are like wishes, fun.......but no more important than French Fries.
irossall
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No but I do believe in the Ghost Count Smile .
Iven Smile
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2013-07-10 17:37, silverking wrote:
Personal beliefs and various faith systems are great, but are ultimately irrelevant as far as the planet, galaxy, or universe is concerned.
Believe what you want, it changes nothing that matters beyond man's own hubris.

Things are what they are, beliefs are like wishes, fun.......but no more important than French Fries.


I actually agree with you.

But the belief in ghosts stems from the belief in the afterlife which is rooted in faith systems which have changed the world.

You and I might not like it or share their views, but these ghost-believers conquer the majority of the human psyche on Earth.

I won't go further, as it might get this thread deleted.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Circusman
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Exactly Pakar.

They can always delete a thread - but they can never delete the TRUTH !
Steve_Mollett
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Whatever that is...
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
mastermindreader
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The Truth is Out There.

Somewhere.

Maybe.
Dougini
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Do I believe that there are ghosts? Hmmm. Dunno. Science so far has not been able to give us a definitive answer. Religion? Don't get me started... Something is going on. No doubt. From UFO's to paranormal...what is it that's happening?

A lot of it is attention-getters, hoaxers and wish-it-would-happen wannabes. Speculators and people with vivid imaginations. The few that ARE real...you and I will never in our lifetimes have an answer. I won't say what is real and what is not. I CAN say I have had...oh boy. I'm not sure I wanna open myself to ridicule any more.

Doesn't matter. You will NEVER convince me I'm gullible or am a victim of my own imagination. Ladies and gentlemen who believe all this is bunk...please. Continue to do so. You are MUCH better off for it. Life is complicated enough withOUT all this insanity. I'm not afraid of whatever IT is. So far, no harm has come to me, so whatEVER.

The last year or so has been pretty much uneventful. Those of you who HAVE had and are having paranormal and extraterrestrial encounters, you have no problem getting ME to take you seriously! Been there, done that. Do I have answers? No. I have learned (thanks to you guys) not to speculate what IT or THEY might be.

Doug
Pakar Ilusi
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Ghosts? No. Smile

Aliens? Yes. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2013-07-13 16:22, Dougini wrote:
Do I believe that there are ghosts? Hmmm. Dunno. Science so far has not been able to give us a definitive answer. Religion? Don't get me started... Something is going on. No doubt. From UFO's to paranormal...what is it that's happening?

A lot of it is attention-getters, hoaxers and wish-it-would-happen wannabes. Speculators and people with vivid imaginations. The few that ARE real...you and I will never in our lifetimes have an answer. I won't say what is real and what is not. I CAN say I have had...oh boy. I'm not sure I wanna open myself to ridicule any more.

Doesn't matter. You will NEVER convince me I'm gullible or am a victim of my own imagination. Ladies and gentlemen who believe all this is bunk...please. Continue to do so. You are MUCH better off for it. Life is complicated enough withOUT all this insanity. I'm not afraid of whatever IT is. So far, no harm has come to me, so whatEVER.

The last year or so has been pretty much uneventful. Those of you who HAVE had and are having paranormal and extraterrestrial encounters, you have no problem getting ME to take you seriously! Been there, done that. Do I have answers? No. I have learned (thanks to you guys) not to speculate what IT or THEY might be.

Doug


Hi Doug,

Would you also say science so far has not been able to give us a definitive answer regarding Leprechauns? What about invisible fire-breathing shape-shifters on Pluto? The burden is not on science to prove that no ghosts exist. The burden of proof falls on those making the claim. You got a claim? Science says fine, bring your evidence. If your evidence is compelling and sufficient, then the phenomena (whatever it is) will be entered into the arena of the real and the known. And so far, no claim has met the burden of proof required for the scientific community to declare that "ghosts" are real.

The "something" that is going on is the same thing that has always gone on. People make claims. So there's nothing new there. And lots of weak evidence doesn't add up to strong evidence.

Doug, if you were ever fooled by a magic trick (and I'm sure you were) then guess what? YOU were gullible! We are ALL "gullible" and can be "victims of our own imagination" at times. Since we all have human brains which were wired and molded by the same process of evolution, we all can be deceived by our own senses in the same ways. If you, or anyone, is convinced of your own infallibility, I highly recommend that you watch the series "Brain Games" now in reruns (or get the DVD). Not only is it very entertaining (with a good deal of magic incorporated), but you will gain a better understanding of the way our brains process information. And I promise you, after being made of aware of your cognitive flaws, you will question your own judgment much more than you ever have.

Instead of automatically taking seriously all those "who HAVE had and are having paranormal and extraterrestrial encounters" (and therefore embracing the inevitable hoaxsters and/or the self-deluded), wouldn't it be more prudent to be initially skeptical of those claims until they have met their burden of proof? You lose absolutely nothing by taking a skeptical stance and withholding judgment, while you DO set yourself up to (potentially) lose much more by automatically accepting all those claims (e.g. $800 phone calls to Sylvia Browne).

Ron
:)
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Curtis Alexander
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Simply put, I do not believe in ghosts.
Pakar Ilusi
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Schizophrenics hear voices in their head. (I'm sure a few people who talked to deity are schizos!)

Maybe there is a psychological condition that makes people "see" ghosts?

Explains why some can while most can't.

I'm not equating it to being mental, okay?

Just a little bit.

;)
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Dougini
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Quote:
On 2013-07-13 18:45, R.S. wrote:
...You lose absolutely nothing by taking a skeptical stance and withholding judgment, while you DO set yourself up to (potentially) lose much more by automatically accepting all those claims (e.g. $800 phone calls to Sylvia Browne).


Very good points, Ron! Thank you! Smile

Doug
Circusman
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Hey Pakar,

I object to that. I'm not schizo (but my other self is !!!). I'm just mental.
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