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tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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In the wild west the saying was "God made some men big and some men small. Samuel Colt made them all equal". Today it's "God made some men smart and some men stupid. Gates and Jobs made them all stupid".

JMN
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tommy
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Wild Bill Gates

They thought the old west was wild. Wait till they get a load of the new world order.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
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Bill Gates has done more to destroy public education in the US than just about any other single person. Don't get me started or I'll be asking you to read dianeravitch.net again. Soon you're going to have Michael Bloomberg spread his money around in the UK with equally predictably disastrous results.
LobowolfXXX
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What do you feel are the most reliable measures of school quality?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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Fairly irrelevant as Bill Gates and the "reform" movement have no interest in school quality. The only common thread to their nostrums is the making of profit.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2013-07-14 19:02, LobowolfXXX wrote:
What do you feel are the most reliable measures of school quality?


I know you didn't ask me, but I felt like answering anyway. Smile

I'm referring to high schools. In no particular order:

1. Graduation rates
2. Drop out rates
3. Percentage of those who go on to college.
4. Average GPA's vis a vis SAT averages
5. Teacher salaries, continuing professional education and length of experience
6. Student demographics and parental involvement
7. All kinds of other stuff, since there are innumerable factors that come into play. None of which have anything in particular to do with Bill Gates.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2013-07-14 19:28, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-07-14 19:02, LobowolfXXX wrote:
What do you feel are the most reliable measures of school quality?


I know you didn't ask me, but I felt like answering anyway. Smile

I'm referring to high schools. In no particular order:

1. Graduation rates
2. Drop out rates
3. Percentage of those who go on to college.
4. Average GPA's vis a vis SAT averages
5. Teacher salaries, continuing professional education and length of experience
6. Student demographics and parental involvement
7. All kinds of other stuff, since there are innumerable factors that come into play. None of which have anything in particular to do with Bill Gates.

I think your measure 3 should be replaced with the percentage of those who go on and _succeed_ at college. Or at least make it past first year.

("Thirty percent of U.S. college and university students drop out after their first year. Half never graduate, and college completion rates in the United States have been stalled for more than three decades.")
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dannydoyle
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Actually I do not believe college is a measure of success.

Perhaps a metric for how well they succeed in a chosen career path might be appropriate?

I know many who finish college who end up failures in life.

I am in NO WAY saying it is better not to go or it won't help or anything of that nature. Please do not misunderstand.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2013-07-14 19:28, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-07-14 19:02, LobowolfXXX wrote:
What do you feel are the most reliable measures of school quality?


I know you didn't ask me, but I felt like answering anyway. Smile

I'm referring to high schools. In no particular order:

1. Graduation rates
2. Drop out rates
3. Percentage of those who go on to college.
4. Average GPA's vis a vis SAT averages
5. Teacher salaries, continuing professional education and length of experience
6. Student demographics and parental involvement
7. All kinds of other stuff, since there are innumerable factors that come into play. None of which have anything in particular to do with Bill Gates.


I don't disagree with your measures, but you are missing some very important indicators that are less easy to measure (but are by no means impossible).

* How well do students with special education needs perform relative to the graded curriculum, if appropriate, or an individual plan, if appropriate?
* Do English Language Learners acquire sufficient academic language to transition to the postsecondary school or the workforce as befits the students' ability and aspirations?
* Are sexual minority students able to live, work and study in safety and security?
* Do parents believe that their children's aspirations are respected?
* Do students with aspirations to enter the workforce directly from school have sufficient skills to enter the field/trade of their choice?

That's a start.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Jonathan Townsend
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Basic reading skills, including those of identifying the presupposositions of the implied ideal reader, the author and the editor, seem to have gone out of fashion. perhaps replaced by bellyfeel as regards ones essential vanity or required dogma?

dumbing down of America. There's more to reading than phonics and dog whistles.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
acesover
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Quote:
On 2013-07-14 19:02, LobowolfXXX wrote:
What do you feel are the most reliable measures of school quality?


According to the teachers I surveyed it is salary, retirement plan, medical benefits and raises. Smile With all of those things in place education will follow until the next contract.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2013-07-14 21:28, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-07-14 19:28, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-07-14 19:02, LobowolfXXX wrote:
What do you feel are the most reliable measures of school quality?


I know you didn't ask me, but I felt like answering anyway. Smile

I'm referring to high schools. In no particular order:

1. Graduation rates
2. Drop out rates
3. Percentage of those who go on to college.
4. Average GPA's vis a vis SAT averages
5. Teacher salaries, continuing professional education and length of experience
6. Student demographics and parental involvement
7. All kinds of other stuff, since there are innumerable factors that come into play. None of which have anything in particular to do with Bill Gates.


I don't disagree with your measures, but you are missing some very important indicators that are less easy to measure (but are by no means impossible).

* How well do students with special education needs perform relative to the graded curriculum, if appropriate, or an individual plan, if appropriate?
* Do English Language Learners acquire sufficient academic language to transition to the postsecondary school or the workforce as befits the students' ability and aspirations?
* Are sexual minority students able to live, work and study in safety and security?
* Do parents believe that their children's aspirations are respected?
* Do students with aspirations to enter the workforce directly from school have sufficient skills to enter the field/trade of their choice?

That's a start.


Agreed. That's part of the "All kinds of other stuff" that I referred to in #7. Smile
landmark
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Quote:
On 2013-07-14 22:49, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-07-14 19:02, LobowolfXXX wrote:
What do you feel are the most reliable measures of school quality?


According to the teachers I surveyed it is salary, retirement plan, medical benefits and raises. Smile With all of those things in place education will follow until the next contract.

Please stop slandering teachers.
landmark
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When I visit a pre-college school to see whether it is a good one or not, I look to see: do the students think, do the students do, do the students communicate effectively, does each student have a sense of what her or his unique abilities and possibilities are.

Then, what is the school doing to help students make this happen.

Then, what power do students have in the school community, and how do they use it. Then, what power do teachers have in the school community and how do they use it. Then, what power do administrators have in the school community and how do they use it.

Do the parents like the human beings their children are growing up to be.
acesover
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Quote:
On 2013-07-15 08:26, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-07-14 22:49, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-07-14 19:02, LobowolfXXX wrote:
What do you feel are the most reliable measures of school quality?


According to the teachers I surveyed it is salary, retirement plan, medical benefits and raises. Smile With all of those things in place education will follow until the next contract.

Please stop slandering teachers.


I would never think of slandering anyone. Just pointing out what teachers think is important around here. It is just a fact that teachers believe that those are important qualities in a school where they teach.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2013-07-15 08:26, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-07-14 22:49, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-07-14 19:02, LobowolfXXX wrote:
What do you feel are the most reliable measures of school quality?


According to the teachers I surveyed it is salary, retirement plan, medical benefits and raises. Smile With all of those things in place education will follow until the next contract.

Please stop slandering teachers.


How is describing some concerns of school employees, the teachers he's asked, slandering?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
landmark
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The implication is clear: teachers are selfish folks who only care about their own pay above all else. It's a slander. Please stop.

Anybody care to address some of the criteria I outlined?
tommy
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Why not simply leave it all to Mr Bill Gates, who is clearly a wonderful benefactor of humanity and altogether smarter than you all?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2013-07-16 19:50, landmark wrote:
The implication is clear: teachers are selfish folks who only care about their own pay above all else. It's a slander. Please stop.

Anybody care to address some of the criteria I outlined?

I'd like to. My observations on those concerns have not been affirmative or encouraging though. The quote about "the efforts of..." comes to mind though I watched several teachers try and sneak in some educational content/insight even in the face of the disinterested, unprepared and policy makers who desired such.

Will this be on the test?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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