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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2013-07-20 07:06, landmark wrote: Silver's very much there. |
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Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
I actually liked it and I'm a devout Clayton Moore Fan (who would have not liked it), but it was a bit weird to see "The Lone Ranger" starring Tonto
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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motown Inner circle Atlanta by way of Detroit 6127 Posts |
I got a good laugh listening to Jonny Depp defend his portrayal of a Native American. The studio did a good spin on it as well.
Here's a little piece of trivia. The Lone Ranger was created and aired on WXYZ radio in Detroit, along with the Green Hornet and Sgt. Preston of the Yukon. Vlad, if Tomestone is the only western you've ever seen, you've got a lot of catching up to do.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
– Karl Germain |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On 2013-07-21 00:11, motown wrote: He didn't say that Tombstone was the only Western he'd ever seen; he said that it was the only Western he'd ever seen that he liked. I believe that that's different. |
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motown Inner circle Atlanta by way of Detroit 6127 Posts |
My friend Vlad needs to watch more westerns then, because there's a whole of better ones out there then Tombstone.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
– Karl Germain |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Actually, I'd say that Tombstone is one of the better westerns I've seen. It was certainly far superior, for example, to Costner's Wyatt Earp and Burt Lancaster's Gunfight at the OK Corral.
It's not of the caliber of High Noon, though. |
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motown Inner circle Atlanta by way of Detroit 6127 Posts |
Or the Searchers, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, Shane, Unforgiven, Stagecoach..
But I do like Tombstobe and own it. I liked it far better that the two you mentioned Bob, although I liked James Garner's portrayal of Earp better in Sturges' Hour of the Gun. As much as I like Gary Cooper, I never liked High Noon.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
– Karl Germain |
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lynnef Inner circle 1407 Posts |
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On 2013-07-20 00:30, mastermindreader wrote: The original Red Dawn was unintentionally funny. See it for a good laugh! Lynn |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
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On 2013-07-21 00:11, motown wrote: It's funny that they couldn't find a single Native American actor worthy of the role. Then again, they probably didn't want one. And the way Depp just makes up the entire look of the character with no regard whatsoever to ANY sort of accuracy. lol! The bird on the head is just comical but I guess Native Americans are just comic book characters as far as most people are concerned anyway. Putting on "Red" or "Yellow" face, and speaking pidgin english is still a perfectly acceptable practice in film and TV. Even to a lot of people who like to pat themselves on the back for their "racial sensitivity". Of course, that supposed sensitivity is mostly phony too. So this is perfectly fine. Cause it's Johnny Deep and he's just playing an indian. Wonder what's next for him? Maybe he can paint himself the color of a school bus, stick some big fake buck teeth in his mouth, and play Charlie Chan. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
There was, in fact, a Comanche advisor on the film and Depp, while by no means fluent, DID learn the language.
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
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On 2013-07-22 15:23, mastermindreader wrote: Oh, ok. Then forget everything I said. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
A somewhat better portrayal of an American Indian by a "non-ben" actor is Lou Diamond Phillips as Henry Standing Bear in the Longmire series. He doesn't have the accent quite right. The dialogue in the books is actually a lot funnier than in the series.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2013-07-22 15:27, Marlin1894 wrote: LOL! I was just trying to add a bit of mitigation. I agree with you that Depp was probably not the best choice to portray a native American. But I didn't see it as a racist thing. Nor did the Comanches, apparently, because they made Depp an honorary member of the tribe. Guess they weren't as offended as others pretended to be. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31749_162-57......e-tribe/ That aside, though, the original Tonto wasn't even a Comanche. Interestingly, one of the greatest "American Indian" actors was the legendary Iron Eyes Cody. His image became iconic in the "Keep America Beautiful" public service ad in the 1970's, in which a tear fell from his eye as he watched tourists littering the landscape of the West. His real name was Espera Oscar de Corti and he was born in Lousiana to Sicilian parents. But he sure LOOKED like a native American. And, upon his death in 1997 he was honored by native Americans for his positive portrayal of them throughout his long career. In this 1947 photo, Cody is on the left: |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yea that was all the stuff I check at the door. It wasn't upsetting the Comanche so I am good.
Also just for the record Tonto means idiot in Spanish. They actually poke at this in the movie. Has always been an odd thing to me for that to be his name. But why poke it with a stick? Hey if Denzel Washington can play a white guy and if Michael Clark Duncan can be the Kingpin (The whitest dude in the history of comic books.) then I am ok with Depp as Tonto.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
Yes, I know about Iron Eyes Cody. I think he fooled a lot of people, possibly even himself! (BTW I think the tear was fake too).
To me it's just a little annoying. I actually love old western films and TV shows, but sometimes it can be a bit painful watching white actors portraying other ethnicities/races. Chuck Conners, Burt Lancaster, Natalie Wood, Donna Reed etc playing Indians. Or even Marlo Thomas playing a Chinese girl on Bonanza. It's hard to watch. So here it is, however many years later, and what Depp is doing is essentially the same thing. The same type of cartoonish portrayal. I understand that are really no Native American actors that can draw an audience the way Depp can. It's all money driven and that's fine, but it's still a bit iffy to me. I wish he had chosen to be a little more authentic in his regalia etc. I admire that they made Tonto Comanche, and that Depp studied the language and all that, but I still see him in the trailers saying "Kemo Sabe". I have no idea what language that's from, if it's even an authentic Native American word, but I bet it's not Comanche. Anyway, if you don't see it a a racist thing, that's fine. It's your business. Even Native Americans are split on things like this, although some find it quite offensive. What you rarely see are many non-Natives getting worked up about it. Like they do about sports team names for example. Will Sampson, Chief Dan George were good actors. Adam Beach and Graham Greene are good actors. There must be a few others out there, right? But they are probably all working in independently produced projects primarily targeted at Native American audiences. They would never get a shot at a big budget film like The Lone Ranger. Anyway, not to totally hijack the thread. I haven't seen the movie yet, but maybe I will. The reviews weren't great and I don't think it's doing all that well at the box office, but most people here who have seen it seem to have enjoyed it. |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
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On 2013-07-22 17:18, Dannydoyle wrote: Hey, I'm ok with Al Jolson in blackface singing about his Mammy in Alabammy. I don't why that kind of thing had to go away. lol! |
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motown Inner circle Atlanta by way of Detroit 6127 Posts |
At the end of the day the studio needed an actor with name status to make the film. I guess no one of that status wanted to play the Lone Ranger, so the cast a fake Indian...again.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
– Karl Germain |
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
I don't remember anyone going nutso over Louis Cameron Gossett, Jr. portraying Anwar Sadat. Maybe some folks along the Nile Delta had an issue and it wasn't reported.
I think acting ability trumps all else. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
No matter who they chose for the part, Jay Silverheels was, and forever will be, the ONLY Tonto in my mind.
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
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On 2013-07-22 18:40, Zombie Magic wrote: Ha! Yeah, cause covering you face in paint, sticking a bird on your head, and mumbling a bunch of pidgin english is such a demanding role. No Native American actor could ever have pulled that off. The fact is that they could have cast any number of people in the role, it's just that Johnny Depp wanted to play indian on screen. It's a simple as that. He's the exec producer and the big box office draw so that's what he did. It didn't bother him, and if it doesn't bother you, fine. |
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