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scottds80 Special user Victoria, Australia 730 Posts |
Hey guys,
I made a bad mistake. An immediate relative of mine has been playing the poker machines to the extremes lately. She once played her life away on them & became bankrupt back in 1994. She went bankrupt again in 2002. This time she is back at it again, and for several months she has embezzled (stolen) money from her work as she is the administrator. At least $20,000 - $30,000. The sad thing is its a community organization not for profit. She eventually got caught out, has had the police show up and tell her not to return to work & is in the process of being charged and yet to go to court. She couldn't afford to pay her rent recently so she begged me for $800, and I paid it to her and she promised to return the money in 4 days time when she was paid for another job she has. I don't know why I believed her. Yesterday was the day, she broke down in tears an said She's still gambling and can't stop. But she keeps promising she's stopped after the police incident. When I sent a message saying me and my family with 3 babies need it to get by, her response was that if I'm so worried about the money, she would be better off curling up into a ball and dying, then I can get money from insurance and everyone will be happy. She is an alcoholic and prescription drug popper too. This has been a difficult week for my family! Thanks for reading.
"Great Scott the Magician", Gippsland
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Scott, you've done what you can and we can't be responsible for our close relatives' mistakes. We can do what our means permit, but beyond that, your family comes first and your relative needs to hit bottom and pick herself up by her bootstraps. That may sound cruel, but it's an unfortunate reality. I don't envy your position here.
I don't know if they have Alcoholics Anonymous or equivalent gambling and drug organizations in Australia, but do look into it asap to give yourself some relief for feeling guilt. Don't permit her to control your feelings so that you feel guilty for her mistakes. Love her, forgive her, but you've done what you can for her. She needs to help herself. I feel for you brother. You are not to blame, just remember that. best, bob
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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scottds80 Special user Victoria, Australia 730 Posts |
Thanks Bob, it will pass I'm sure. Shea usually a very friendly person. As most people know, there are a lot of attention seekers around and do terrible things, even if they don't intend to be stupid in the first place. It's a mental illness and ill keep a bit of distance now. We've hot support, if she wants to use it.
The reason I brought this up is because I think this happens a lot in society, and be careful of ever loaning money to manipulative people even though its an illness.
"Great Scott the Magician", Gippsland
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
If someone's in bad shape and you're able to and wish to help that person financially, that's a personal decision, but do so with the expectation that you're not going to see the money again - i.e. as a gift, not a loan (I mean, your mental approach; you can CALL it a loan). If you ever DO get paid back, that's just gravy.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
You're right Scott, you're not alone. That's why I suggested the support groups that may be available to you. Hang in there and just remember that you can still love her and that might be something she will need more than anything else when she comes to her senses.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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scottds80 Special user Victoria, Australia 730 Posts |
Very wise words from both of you.
Just gotta be careful when giving/loaning money if you know it will be spent on the habit itself. It's just going to feed it more then.
"Great Scott the Magician", Gippsland
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
Sometimes "I'm sorry, but I am not the solution to your problem." is the easiest and best for both parties. Then, they go to plan B which does not involve you. That keeps you on speaking terms.
Sympathies to you, that is a hard, disappointing lesson to have inflicted onto you.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-07-22 23:15, scottds80 wrote: You made a decision based on your very human emotion of wanting to help others. You're a kind person, so don't beat yourself up over it. The money will probably never be returned from HER. You never know how acts of kindness get returned in other ways, over the course of a life. Thanks for sharing your story as it will help others! |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Teach him to cheat ... problem solved
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Salguod Nairb Room 101 0 Posts |
Cut her loose and move on. Your priority is to your family.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Gamblers Anonymous, therapy, ASAP as minimum requirements for continued support.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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MobilityBundle Regular user Las Vegas/Boston 120 Posts |
Scott, I grew up in Vegas, and I've had some exposure to gambling addiction in friends and family, most closely my brother. Further to some of the good advice above, you can offer her support by paying bills directly. For example, don't give her money for rent, but send money directly to her landlord... that kind of thing. But, as Lobo rightly said, don't expect to see that money back.
More generally, addiction is a real disease. It causes people to behave in strange ways. It might be easier said than done, but try to separate the bad things the disease causes her to do from "her" as a person. A bargain I struck with my brother was that I'd forgive all the bad things he did -- lying, stealing, etc. -- as long as he got treatment, faithfully abided by it, and acknowledged that he's a gambling addict. To be sure, it can be tough for someone to acknowledge they're a gambling addict. I mean, it's easy to say, but there are real consequences. For example, my family and I made clear to my brother that anything he said that related to money was presumptively a lie that we'd have to verify. Stuff like, "my hours were cut at work, so I'm $100 short this week" would result in a call to work. Similarly, if he suddenly showed up with something it didn't look like he could afford, we would look in to that too. Being under a microscope like that got very frustrating for him, but he understood why it was necessary. Anyways, every case is different. Hopefully this is helpful, but obviously it may not all work for you. Best of luck. |
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Circusman Special user Kent, England. 555 Posts |
Stick her in the middle of the friggin highway !
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
When a person has hit bottom that many times the only thing left for her to do is ruin your life too. The ball is in your court.
Circusman seems to understand the problem very well.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Salguod Nairb Room 101 0 Posts |
I guess everything is a disease except personal responsibility...
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Give me her number and I will take care of her.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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MobilityBundle Regular user Las Vegas/Boston 120 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-07-23 15:14, Salguod Nairb wrote: I used to think that, actually. Even with my brother. (He's my older brother by 8 years, and I was a teenager when he got in serious trouble). Here's the thing that changed my mind: I did my first year of college in Vegas. I met a friend, Todd, who was probably in his 4th or 5th year of school at the time. He was a stats major, and a reasonably smart guy. He certainly knew stats very well. He was also homeless. He slept at the airport (which was a lot easier to do pre-9/11), showered at the UNLV gym, kept his stuff at one of a few lockers around campus, etc. He would get a little money from third shift jobs, like at a fast food restaurant (Carl's Jr.) across the street from campus. (As an aside, Carl's had one of the weirdest collections of regulars I've ever seen. Among other vagrants, mathematicians would hang out there, including the late, great, Looy Simonoff.) Anyways, it was well known amongst the Carl's Jr. social circle that Todd had a gambling problem. He made no attempt to hide it, and didn't apologize to anyone for it. And nobody really judged him for it. One day, me and a couple other of the Carl's Jr. folks saw Todd playing video poker somewhere. We came by to say hello, and I noticed he had something like 100 credits (at $.25/credit) in the machine. As we were chatting, and the credits dwindling at roughly 5 per hand, he hit a royal flush... a 4000 credit payout. We all cheered for him, but he didn't even smile. Perplexed, we asked why he wasn't happy. His response hit me hard. Along the lines of: "I get sad when I lose, but I get even sadder when I win. When I win, especially with a royal flush like this, it just means I'm going to have to sit here that much longer before I lose it all." We had a fascinating conversation. He acknowledged there were better things to do with the money. He acknowledged that the odds were against him. He completely understood the rational case for why gambling doesn't make sense. When presented with the very tangible option of hitting the "cash out" button and renting an apartment for a month, instead of losing it that night, he acknowledged the apartment was the better way to go. But there was something else, more primal, that compelled him to stay and lose it. Now, maybe that's not all gambling addicts. But there's something wrong with that guy. It's not an unwillingness to take responsibility. |
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Salguod Nairb Room 101 0 Posts |
In your story his problem is not the gambling. That is just the tool that he chose to use for his self-destruction. It could even be considered a fear of success. I'm sure there are other background issues, but I doubt that gambling created his situation.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
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MobilityBundle Regular user Las Vegas/Boston 120 Posts |
You might be right about a base reason for his self-destructive behavior. But, he didn't smoke, drank moderately (at most), didn't do drugs, etc. His only self-destructive behavior appeared to be gambling. I didn't know him very well, but I'd be willing to concede that there were other significant background issues.
But whether gambling *created* his problem or was merely the means of self-harm doesn't seem like a useful distinction to me. In particular, treatment for gambling addiction would be expected to lead to positive results. Maybe those results involve identifying and resolving background issues, maybe not. To me, that's more of a semantic distinction than anything else. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
My wife sells lottery tickets where she works, and she told me that she has turned people away because they come in on pay day to blow their pay check on scratch offs.
I have read stories about people who have taken out a personal loan to buy large quantities of lottery tickets because they dreamt that they were going to win a fortune. Obese people are addicted to food.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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