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MobilityBundle Regular user Las Vegas/Boston 120 Posts |
The patent office would accept anything, as long as it is not self-described as a perpetual motion device. To be sure, the patent office doesn't have scientists and engineers on-hand to evaluate the efficacy of claimed technology. When a patent examiner gets a new application, he reads it very quickly to see what the applicant is trying to patent. He skips the summary, the intended uses, the potential benefits to society, the history of the invention, all that stuff. At the very end of the patent, there's a section called "claims." It's a numbered list of things the inventor regards as patentable. A claim might look something like:
"A machine comprising an X connected to a Y, all enclosed in a Z, wherein the X is green and the Y is turbo-charged." So the Examiner goes off and sees if he can find all those elements in the prior art. He might find one document that describes an X connected to a Y all enclosed in a Z. Then another document describing green X's, and yet a third document describing turbo-charged Y's. If he does all that, he makes a rejection. If there's something he can't find in the art, then he allows the claim. But at no point does he ask himself, "what would such a machine do?" At least, not if you don't force him to. If you had a claim like: "A machine comprising an X connected to a Y, configured to accept an amount of input energy and, after a finite time, produce a greater amount of output energy," then you're forcing the examiner to find a perpetual motion machine in the prior art. So then he'll give you the "no perpetual motion machines" rejection. |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Thanks for the heads-up, guys. This should have been transpicuous, but I (we) didn't see it.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
"In that, we have no real choice. And it's not personal against any one on this forum. It's just simply the way it has to be. "
Best way to achieve that is to keep your mouth shut and not post it all over a public forum. |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Precisely! And true to form I haven't posted ANYTHING. about the actual modus operandi of the machine. If I have please show me where.,
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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imgic Inner circle Moved back to Midwest to see 1336 Posts |
True, you haven't given clue as to workings of machine...but then again, it started out in your first post as "free energy" that was "totally self-sustaining" to your post of few days ago when you talk about that "It is not perpetual motion, and TECHNICALLY it is not free." So which is it?
In that post a few days ago you there's a few more telling quotes... "...it works, to the observer, to the eye, as perpetual motion would..." (So does the spinning pencil video, as well as a hundred other videos on youtube showing perpetual motion machines. But what hard data to you have to support your claims) "The machine will probably GRADUALLY, that is, slowly, imperceptibly become bradykinetic, that is slow down..." (probably? will it or won't it? How much? How long?) "... we will be the first to get funded through kickstarters so we can have the necessary money to make it "bigger and better" "more powerful" or whatever we deem desirable for future improvements." (You don't know what's needed? Sounds like you're going to arbitrarily "deem" how you want to use start up money. What's the specifics of your plan?) "So theoretically and technically it will run "forever"" and "...perhaps every twenty years or so you had to replace a bearing or or a sensor or some niggling, minor thing..." (First: Don't make claim it runs "forever" especially when you've just stated it's not perpetual motion. Second: Don't say it runs forever then state you have to replace something...even if it is some niggling, minor thing.) I'd suggest getting a book on how to develop a business case and to find another patent attorney. Also re-suggest you get independent testing of your model. But not sure it'll do any good. I foresee future lawsuits; but not for use of the word "niggling" (great commetn Bats!)...
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
"Precisely! And true to form I haven't posted ANYTHING. about the actual modus operandi of the machine. If I have please show me where.,"
My point was not that you shared the inner workings, but that you shared anything at all. If you are working on something so top secret and so wonderful, then it is best to keep it under the radar, which means not posting ANYTHING about it, even the idea of it, on a public forum. What is the point other than to bring some odd form of attention to yourself. If you are looking for advice on patent law or filing a patent, this is hardly the place to do it. If you are looking to raise money, this, again, is hardly the forum for it. file your patent (by the way, last time I filled for a patent the cost was about $25k when you factored in the lawyers fees) and then talk about it. |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Last I checked this part of the Café was to talk about ANYTHING except magic itself. I'm within the rules. And I feel you are proverbially straining at gnats while swallowing a camel.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
I'm not talking about the Café Rules. Write anything you want, for all I care.
My point was given from a BUSINESS perspective. Every hear Apple talk about products before they are released? There is a reason for that. In my experience: fools talk about their ideas. Succesfull people show you a manifestation of their ideas: a working prototype. And until they have that and a patent in place, they keep it on a need to know basis. |
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imgic Inner circle Moved back to Midwest to see 1336 Posts |
This might help...
This Will Be The #1 Business Skill Of The Next 5 Years http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/artic......-large_0
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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InstantMagicBen New user 83 Posts |
Good luck with this, get ready to change the world!
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Thanks. The final piece we need has been ordered and should arrive before the end of the week. Then we can proceed with final assembly of the unit. Many of these parts we have had to have precision machined to our specs. Had to hire a welder because neither me or Scott have welding skills.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
How's it going?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Yes, how is it coming along?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Mehtas Inner circle England, UK 1649 Posts |
Any luck ?
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
I was sort of afraid of this.
My suspicion is that daffydoug's full-sized generator opened up a momentary rift in the space–time continuum, sucked him in, and that's all she wrote. Goodbye, brave experimenter. We hardly knew ye.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
I am more concerned with the Physics of it. He may have found out that his prototype worked just fine, and the full scale model was a victim of greater weight and greater friction. Often the small models work far better than the full scale ones. I still wish him the best and hope it works out for him.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Isn't everyone wishing him the best just encouraging him on something that in reality we all know won't work?
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
I'd say yes. But it's a nice excitement and exploration for him...he's on his own path. You hate to discourage these things, but feel obligated to toss out warnings of wasting time and effort. But still...good luck.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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imgic Inner circle Moved back to Midwest to see 1336 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-09-12 20:16, balducci wrote: I thought I felt a disturbance in the Force...
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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irossall Special user Snohomish, Washington 529 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-09-13 17:38, rockwall wrote: Is that wrong? I wish daffydoug the best of luck even if it is only for my own selfish reasons. By the way, I don't know that it won't work, so not EVERYONE knows it won't work. Popular opinion and popular science has been proven wrong many times in the past. Maybe what daffydoug and his partner are doing is not against physic's, rather it is working within the bounds of physic's in a different manner. Many of our greatest inventor's were met with laughter and ridicule before their inventions had a chance to prove themselves. I'm glad that these creative people were not discouraged by those who laughed at them. The real point is, daffydoug is not hurting anyone and has asked nobody here at the Café for money (as far as I know). Are some of you so insecure with yourselves that you must ridicule other's in order to feel superior? Or maybe some of you are just having fun? Iven
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
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