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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Scott you miss the point. If you were the ONLY available entertainer then supply and demand has more of an impact.
BUT when there is another magician, juggler, vent, or whatever available it no longer matters. All you are doing is charging more and then you put yourself in competition with better quality acts. I don't give a rats hind parts what people charge for what time of year. I am just exposing some of the fallacies that lead to VERY bad business practices, and magicians wondering why they have no business but for a couple weeks during the busy times of year. It ALL matters.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
Increased competition increases supply and reduces demand for a particular product. Rules still apply. If you do not meet the standards of your customers in relation to your competition, your demand will drop drastically (as does price). This is the behaviour of a free market.
The ideal (which I'm still chasing) is to be and be seen as a unique offering. There will always be hundreds of alternatives (dancers, comedians, gambling tables, game shows, etc, etc, etc) but I like to try to be a product that has little in the way of a identical (or very similar) competition. |
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
I hope I don't come across as arguing. I think Danny - you and I agree but we're just speaking in different terms.
Agreed - you can't just charge more and expect to be paid that price. Market forces are at work and prospects will choose to go elsewhere if you are priced inappropriately. Analysis and some trail and error is often needed to understand the situation for a particular product and company. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Time of year is just ONE factor in price. IF that is the only reason that justifies your price increase it is a mistake. This is all I am saying.
Once people perceive they have not received the proper value for the dollar spent, it is a lost customer. Then you are back to customer aquisition all over again. It costs 5X more to aquire a customer than to retain one. Yes 5X MORE. So lets say you get double the amount for your show even. Then you LOSE that person because they do not feel they received a value for that dollar spent. Next party you lose them and to get someone to REPLACE that customer for next year it costs you 5X what it would have to just retain the previous customer. Now do that for 40% of your shows. It is money right out of your pocket. Sure you make a short term gain in terms of the season, but lose in the long run BIG TIME. But then again if you don't even know what it costs to aquire a customer forget everything you just read.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Incidently I have never justified a price to a customer. Never. My show costs what it costs.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-02 17:34, Dannydoyle wrote: Now that made me laugh. Very good advice though and definitely made me pause and think not to take my current customers for granted. Having to get new ones would really set me back. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
It sets every business back. It is just that some realize it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Rodney Palmer Inner circle 1317 Posts |
My Rates for Specialty Shows for October (Halloween) and December (Christmas) are very HIGH Compared to my Normal Rates. And my Clients expect this as they know it is a Special Themed Show for that particular season. And I am already Booked Solid for Halloween and for Christmas I have 9 openings left.
Rodney
"Creating Memories That Last A Lifetime"
In order to keep "MAGIC ALIVE" Please become a Mentor to a Young Person. |
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scottds80 Special user Victoria, Australia 730 Posts |
Those guys such as Rodney also have a great point. During holiday seasons, if your show can be tailored to suit the theme, then there is a real reason for higher fees. You are including extra props, time spent, and it is a strong opportunity to offer more in this respect.
"Great Scott the Magician", Gippsland
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
But you are implying that you are inherently worth LESS AT OTHER TIMES OF YEAR. Is it your props that make you valuable? Like I said it opens up questions you don't want.
Being busy at busy times of year is the easy part. The key is the other 10 months.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-02 17:34, Dannydoyle wrote: This is why customer satisfaction is so important, and why I bend over backwards to please my customers. Anyone can get a booking, the real trick getting booked over and over. Another magician or entertainer? Why would they even think of it? That's my goal! Frankly, this is why I do NOT raise my prices during peak season. I charge what I think my services are worth. If one of my loyal customers calls me to do their Christmas party, I'm not going to stick it to them by charging them more because they are booking at a peak time. Again, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, it just doesn't square up with the way I want to treat my customers. Just another way of looking at it.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-03 07:01, Dannydoyle wrote: Part of worth is the timing of delivery. I'm currently working on ordering a custom birthday cake for my son. His birthday is in August. This birthday cake is worth substantially less to me during other times of the year (even though it's the same cake). Perhaps this is where we differ: you say that worth is inherent in the product and I say that worth exists only in the mind of the customer. Price always changes with levels of supply and demand. |
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
[/quote]
I charge what I think my services are worth. [/quote] Again, I would argue that it doesn't matter what you think you're worth. It matters what your customers feel that you are worth (this is true "worth"). How do you know your worth? By tracking level of demand for your services. This can include demand for certain time periods. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
All I am saying is be careful what you tie your "value" to. You say you try to be unique but the thing the LEAST unique is time of year.
I prefer to be perceived as valuable all year round. Justy my preference.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-03 09:28, Scott Burton wrote: When I say I charge what I think I'm worth, I guess I should have explained that what 'I think' is based almost entirely on what my customers are telling me, (is my calendar as full as I would like, am I turning down shows because I'm too busy, am I getting tipped on a regular basis, etc?) You're right, the customer gets the final vote. However, I temper all of that with what I need to make it worth while...for me, what me and my family need to pay the bills and reach our long term financial goals. And that doesn't change because it is a peak season. I understand all that supply and demand stuff, I have simply chosen a different way to run my business, which I believe is based on the Golden Rule. Who likes to pay 2 to 3 times the amount for a hotel room simply because you need it on Friday instead of Thursday. Who likes to pay 20 cents more per gallon of gas simply because....well, who knows what games they are playing with gas prices? And my biggest pet peeve, who likes to pay thousands of dollars more for a car simply because they didn't have the necessary negotiating skills? You may get your 'peak' rate with no questions asked, because there is the demand and not as much supply. But when I look at the big picture I think its more valuable to treat my customer the way I'd like to be treated.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Ken exactly. How many times has it frustrated you that people charge you because they CAN? Not because it is of value, but rather because you MUST have it! How frustrating is it that a NEW customer for SPRINT gets a huge deal and I have been with them for 11 years and I get bupkis?
There are 2 sides to things like this. What you are trying to say, and what they are hearing you say. This is not the basis of a great relationship. In fact it is a recipe for price shoppers. My personal business model is one built on long term relationships. It is one based on the perceived value I provide for the customer. It is not based on how much I can charge based on a host of other factors. I am not saying this is right, or it is the only way, or that any other way is wrong. Not by a long shot. Whatever works for you is great. I am just saying that I am busy year round. Always have been. It is not always about just what you CAN get.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
I think Ken and Danny said it well.
It's very hard for a small business to get away from being perceived as just another 'individual.' Unlike a large corporation where there is no one person to blame, the small business owner has a different set of rules to follow. They can't afford to take advantage of the situation like a huge corporation can. Customers are individuals and they have to be treated as such. Customers are supposed to be your friends. You wouldn't charge your friend more just because you could, would you? If anything they should be getting the best price all the time. No customer is going to complain about coming down on price, and I think Donald said it well in his first post: Quote:
On 2013-08-01 16:46, Donald Dunphy wrote: Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
You could take the golden rule argument the other way too: Would you want to undercut another person's worth and pay less than market value?
I enjoy the conversation guys. Hope you don't mind I say you run your business the way you feel best (because you are the expert of your own situation). I specialize in corporate and they are very used to paying market value. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Who said to charge below market value? I certainly never said that in my life.
If that is what you think then you need to read what I said again.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
Quote: Corporations are made up of, and run by, people, just like me and you. I see no reason to exempt them from the golden rule.
On 2013-08-03 12:44, Scott Burton wrote: I enjoy the conversation too Scott and agree we are the experts of our own situation. I can’t imagine how boring life would be if we all agreed on everything.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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