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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » I finally broke down and did it. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Slide
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"I don't know about "downside," but I would say if you have all the business you need, its unnecessary."

In my experience, not marketing yourself will soon lead to not having all the business you need. I've never seen a product, outside of a monopoly, that didn't require some marketing, except maybe drugs.
Slide
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"The only math I would consider important is how it translates to money. Nobody ever answers that."

I think how it translates into money is pretty obvious.

I guess it's time to play marketing 101.

You have your available market, and your current market. Your current market is the people who you already sell to. You current market will diminish over time. Say you are a Children's Magician. At some point, your current market is going to outgrow your services. When that happens your current market shrinks and the amount of money you can make converting your current market into paying customers goes way down. Do you know that the average turnover of an email marketing list is about 30% : 30% of your market disappears each year. Marketing allows you to not only keep your current market its current size, but to increase your market. But depending on the industry, you need to increase your current market by about 30% each year JUST TO STAY EVEN. If you want to grow, by pulling more of the available market into your current market, I don't know an easier way than promoting through social media channels: More market, more people to convert = more money.

That is pretty much how any business works.
Slide
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I'll give you an example from my business. I run a series of membership sites, not unlike the Magic Café, but focused on the marketing industry. Each year, I lose about 10% of my current members: they move on, the get a job in a different industry, what have you.

That means, in order to grow my business they way I want, I first have to make up the 10% I lost last year before I can even grow my business. I add new members from a lot of different sources: some come in as referrals from other members. But the number one driver of new members for me is linkedin and my newsletter articles. I put out the articles, I promote them through social media, people read them and become interested which drives them to the site where I have a ton of testimonials and then hopefully, they sign up. A good 50% of my business is directly related to my social media activities.

That is how you make money with facebook and twitter.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2013-08-05 16:19, Slide wrote:
"I don't know about "downside," but I would say if you have all the business you need, its unnecessary."

In my experience, not marketing yourself will soon lead to not having all the business you need. I've never seen a product, outside of a monopoly, that didn't require some marketing, except maybe drugs.


My best friend is a magician now semi-retired from performing. Before his retirement, he did 150+ shows a year with no social media marketing, and very little active marketing on his part at all. He had an agent, did a lot of repeat bookings, and got calls from referrals and word of mouth. He had absolutely no desire to do more shows than he got effortlessly, and Facebook or Twitter would have been a complete waste of time for him.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Slide
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"He had an agent,"

hahaha.

What do you think an agent does. Smile

marketing.
General_Magician
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On 2013-08-05 09:44, Dannydoyle wrote:
I had to get a Facebook page. People kept asking after shows. I bowed to social pressure.

I am not looking for everyone to randomly like it. Just clarifying that every time I said I didn't have one up until today it was true.


Like my Facebook page and I will like yours. Here is the url to mine: https://www.facebook.com/DavenportMagicalEntertainmentLlc
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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Dannydoyle
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No I don't want just a huge random number of like me so I like you.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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On 2013-08-05 17:43, Slide wrote:
"He had an agent,"

hahaha.

What do you think an agent does. Smile

marketing.


Well, yeah. My point wasn't "marketing is bad." It was, "Not everyone needs to use social media marketing." My favorite restaurant doesn't use it, either, even though most restaurants I go to do. Their business is booming. Ditto many attorneys I know. Social media marketing is a great way to generate business; if you don't need to generate business, and many people don't, you can get along just fine without it.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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On 2013-08-05 17:43, Slide wrote:
"He had an agent,"

hahaha.

What do you think an agent does. Smile

marketing.


Well, yeah. My point wasn't "marketing is bad." It was, "Not everyone needs to use social media marketing." My favorite restaurant doesn't use it, either, even though most restaurants I go to do. Their business is booming. Ditto many attorneys I know. Social media marketing is a great way to generate business; if you don't need to generate business, and many people don't, you can get along just fine without it.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Duplicate!

BTW, the restaurant and lawyers don't have agents.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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I know a great many performers who don't need or use our either.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Slide
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It used to be that lawyers were prohibited from advertising. I wish they still were. And whether or not you think the restaurant is doing social media or not, I can almost guarantee you they are: ever heard yelp.

But restaurants and lawyers are special cases. Let's go back to your magician friend. But before we do, you do know that restaurants have their own social media and marketing outlets. The biggest one that I know if is Fishbowl but there are many others. And certainly Yelp forces restaurants to become savvy Social Media marketers. The negative proof is how bad it can backfire when you don't know what you are doing: ex: Amy's Baking Company.

He pays 15% of his salary ( I assume that is an agents going rate these days) which is basically going to marketing: the agent. And he is "retired" and a known entity, owing to the strong word of mouth.

But now, lets take someone just starting out in their careers: how do they get to the point of doing 150 shows a year. And they don't have an agent. How do they get started? if they aren't using social media sites to take advantage of the free advertising and promotional opportunities that these technologies afford us, their are stupid in my opinion.

And let's say your friend wanted to dump his agent: by getting people at each show to sign his mailing list, and through smart marketing via facebook and twitter, he might be able to dump his agent and pocket the extra money.
Al Angello
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Danny
By next year you will be counting on your facebook contacts. Especially for someone who is in entertainment professionally.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
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Dannydoyle
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Slide for someone starting out it would be priceless I bet.

See in 25 years I have spent under $15, 000 marketing. Word of mouth carries a lot in the markets I operate in. Still does.

I turn down more shows every year than most do. I have done over 250 shows a year for decades.

Starting out today I don't know if I would or could do it the same way. Things are VASTLY different.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Slide
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"Word of mouth carries a lot in the markets I operate in. Still does."

I'm sure it does. And that is all social media is: word of mouth. It is just done on a much larger and efficient scale. Social media IS the word of mouth today.

And things change. What works today may not work tomorrow. Much easier to start building your social media presence now when it doesn't matter much, than to wait until it might and the wolf is at the door. Do you need a social media presence? no. You also don't need an accountant, an ATM, a cell phone, the internet. But it is a lot easier if you know how these things work. In the mid 90's , many people who should have known better underestimated the power the Internet would have in our lives. They regretted that, not too many years later.
General_Magician
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On 2013-08-05 18:26, Dannydoyle wrote:
No I don't want just a huge random number of like me so I like you.


Scratch my back and I scratch your back. That's the way it works. Business is relationship building and relationships are a two way street, NOT a one way street. I might consider referring you work if I can't do some specific type of magic (such as stage magic for example) that you might be able to do and you could do the same for me in return. Business is about building relationships. But liking my Facebook page and me in return liking your Facebook page will give us a better idea of what each other's magic is like and what services each of us offer. It's business. It's the unwritten rules that are followed.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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Slide
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"No I don't want just a huge random number of like me so I like you."

You clearly don't know how this stuff works.

When someone "likes" your page, that notification is sent out on THEIR facebook page. And everytime they "like" one of your posts, it goes out to their followers. Having a lot of people in your industry like your page means that you now have an opportunity to get in front of not only the people who liked YOUR page, but everyone who liked the pages of the people who liked yours. If those folks are magicians, then the people following them are probably pre-disposed to liking your magic. It is a built in audience of magic lovers.

Ah, well. Enough free advice. Most people pay me for this stuff. Smile
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On 2013-08-05 17:49, General_Magician wrote:

Like my Facebook page and I will like yours. Here is the url to mine: https://www.facebook.com/DavenportMagicalEntertainmentLlc

I "liked" yours. Like mine too: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dynamike-......27571347
General_Magician
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On 2013-08-06 08:55, Dynamike wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-05 17:49, General_Magician wrote:

Like my Facebook page and I will like yours. Here is the url to mine: https://www.facebook.com/DavenportMagicalEntertainmentLlc

I "liked" yours. Like mine too: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dynamike-......27571347


Done!
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2013-08-06 07:50, Slide wrote:
"No I don't want just a huge random number of like me so I like you."

You clearly don't know how this stuff works.

When someone "likes" your page, that notification is sent out on THEIR facebook page. And everytime they "like" one of your posts, it goes out to their followers. Having a lot of people in your industry like your page means that you now have an opportunity to get in front of not only the people who liked YOUR page, but everyone who liked the pages of the people who liked yours. If those folks are magicians, then the people following them are probably pre-disposed to liking your magic. It is a built in audience of magic lovers.

Ah, well. Enough free advice. Most people pay me for this stuff. Smile


Clearly you have no ida how my business runs. But if it makes you feel better to think you do then go for it.

Having a billion people pre disposed to being magic lovers translates into exactly zero dollars for me. You may be right in general but in this specific case you are just wrong.

I know everyone flys the social media flag rreally high but for us it is a way to simply be in tough AFTER.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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