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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Dr. Sanjay Gupta Changes Mind on Weed » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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gdw
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On 2013-08-13 06:14, irossall wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-13 04:54, Russell Davidson wrote:
I wonder how many of you who disagree about the wonderful properties of said plant will then go home & have a drink of alcohol?

Ooh, drink & cigarettes, good taxable drugs. Nothing wrong with those huh?


Alcohol and cigarettes are LEGAL and the Government has deemed them much safer and better for us than Marijuana. Too many people have died under the influence of Marijuana. Alcohol and cigarettes are much safer and far fewer deaths are associated with their use.
If you want to get yourself educated about the true horror's of Marijuana use I suggest you watch "Reefer Madness" and "Marijuana, Assasin of Youth". These two educational films were part of my drug education, both in school and in my basic training at Lackland Air Force base.
For those who may not know, Marijuana is THE gateway drug to heroin use. Just what we need, a bunch of junkies breaking into our homes and killing us in our sleep in order to pay for their addiction.
Iven Smile


*** you Poe's Law.
Actually took me till "Alcohol and cigarettes are much safer and far fewer deaths are associated with their use" to think "wait a second," and till Reefer Madness to know for sure.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Magic.J.Manuel
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There are some activities that are not socially acceptable to society, like suicide. Getting addicted to crack or meth is putting a burden on society and affects people beyond the one who does the drugs.

The government has not allowed the science to prove or disprove the "safety" of Cannabis, that is Dr. Gupta's point.

All the American studies have been designed to show how bad pot is, not what the actual benefits are. All the movies are propaganda media to bolster the unwarranted hype against the casual use. There is no actual evidence or scientific studies done to support the "gateway" effect. All intoxicants like nicotine and alcohol can lead to more drug use. If there was a real link then most of the people alive would be addicts.
There has been many advancements and discoveries since I went to school, so I try to keep an open mind about real peer-reviewed science. Smile
Nothing would get done at all, if man waited so long that no one could find fault with it.
Magnus Eisengrim
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On 2013-08-13 08:24, Magic.J.Manuel wrote:
...
All the American studies have been designed to show how bad pot is, not what the actual benefits are. All the movies are propaganda media to bolster the unwarranted hype against the casual use. There is no actual evidence or scientific studies done to support the "gateway" effect.



Both these claims are untrue. Go to google scholar and type in "marijuana therapeutic" and you will say many American-published articles that investigate therapeutic benefits of cannabis or, more often, one or two of its constituent chemicals. Dr. Gupta is blowing smoke on this one.

As for "gateway effects" I used google scholar to look for articles since 2000 with the keywords "marijuana" and "gateway" (Undoubtedly there are better, more comprehensive searches, but this will do for the moment). It appears that the whole gateway hypothesis is an active area of research with a great deal of give-and-take on both sides.

Again, I am nowhere close to expert in these matters. But research into possible benefits is ongoing in the USA and elsewhere, and the gateway hypothesis is still being tested. Of these two, at least, I am certain.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Slide
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"Alcohol and cigarettes are LEGAL and the Government has deemed them much safer and better for us than Marijuana. Too many people have died under the influence of Marijuana. Alcohol and cigarettes are much safer and far fewer deaths are associated with their use.
If you want to get yourself educated about the true horror's of Marijuana use I suggest you watch "Reefer Madness" and "Marijuana, Assasin of Youth". These two educational films were part of my drug education, both in school and in my basic training at Lackland Air Force base.
For those who may not know, Marijuana is THE gateway drug to heroin use. Just what we need, a bunch of junkies breaking into our homes and killing us in our sleep in order to pay for their addiction. "

Is this a series post?

You are basing your knowledge on the movie Reefer Madness? Alchohol and cigarettes much safer than Marijuana? Too many people have DIED?

You have got to be putting me on.

Even on this board I can't believe anyone is this naive and misinformed. I have to assume that post was made in jest and not serious because if that is what you really believe, then really why bother even discussing the matter.
gdw
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On 2013-08-13 07:15, Al Angello wrote:
Danny
Democrats have much to be proud of, and you have nothing but contempt for our many victories. Get used to it because the balance of power has tipped for the forseeable future. Perhaps it is time for you to light up and release your anger.


Lol, nothing has tipped, the coin has just been flipped, and it's most definitely not for the foreseeable future.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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On 2013-08-13 08:24, Magic.J.Manuel wrote:
There are some activities that are not socially acceptable to society, like suicide. Getting addicted to crack or meth is putting a burden on society and affects people beyond the one who does the drugs.


Plenty of things people choose to do, and even things that have nothing to do with their own choices, put a burden on others; that doesn't mean you hold a gun to that persons head and say "you can't do that to yourself."
Alcohol is actually the WORST of all drugs for this, in terms of harm to ones self combined with harm to others, and society at large:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6A......irpc=932

Quote:
On 2013-08-13 08:24, Magic.J.Manuel wrote:
The government has not allowed the science to prove or disprove the "safety" of Cannabis, that is Dr. Gupta's point.

All the American studies have been designed to show how bad pot is, not what the actual benefits are. All the movies are propaganda media to bolster the unwarranted hype against the casual use. There is no actual evidence or scientific studies done to support the "gateway" effect. All intoxicants like nicotine and alcohol can lead to more drug use. If there was a real link then most of the people alive would be addicts.
There has been many advancements and discoveries since I went to school, so I try to keep an open mind about real peer-reviewed science. Smile


Actually, even the studies the state does to try and prove the gateway effect end up showing the exact opposite.
Even WITH their heavy handed agenda, they can't make studies show the harm, risk of abuse and addiction, etc, that they persist to lie about.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Russell Davidson
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Quote:
On 2013-08-13 06:14, irossall wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-13 04:54, Russell Davidson wrote:
I wonder how many of you who disagree about the wonderful properties of said plant will then go home & have a drink of alcohol?

Ooh, drink & cigarettes, good taxable drugs. Nothing wrong with those huh?


Alcohol and cigarettes are LEGAL and the Government has deemed them much safer and better for us than Marijuana. Too many people have died under the influence of Marijuana. Alcohol and cigarettes are much safer and far fewer deaths are associated with their use.
If you want to get yourself educated about the true horror's of Marijuana use I suggest you watch "Reefer Madness" and "Marijuana, Assasin of Youth". These two educational films were part of my drug education, both in school and in my basic training at Lackland Air Force base.
For those who may not know, Marijuana is THE gateway drug to heroin use. Just what we need, a bunch of junkies breaking into our homes and killing us in our sleep in order to pay for their addiction.
Iven Smile


If that's your real opinion then it is you that needs educating. Nobody dies from Marijuana, nobody. Cigarettes & alcohol kill hundereds of thousands worldwide every year.

To say it leads to heroin use is also nonsense. I've never been anywhere near heroin or anything like it.

Oh and the films you watched as education are so outdated & incorrect you'd be a fool to believe anything that was in them. Reefer Madness states as a fact that if you even have a puff of weed you'll commit murder. And you think that is true?!!

If it's not your bag then that's fine but at least try to find out the truth. Quoting the things you have only make you look stupid.
Slide
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If Iven's post wasn't a put on, then he is one of the most delusional people I've ever met. But I still have hope that he was just joking.

Reefer madness! hahahahaha!
Magnus Eisengrim
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On 2013-08-13 09:27, gdw wrote:

Actually, even the studies the state does to try and prove the gateway effect end up showing the exact opposite.
Even WITH their heavy handed agenda, they can't make studies show the harm, risk of abuse and addiction, etc, that they persist to lie about.


Get serious. What is this "the state" that is trying to prove things? Provide facts. Medical research is hardly done by "the state"--especially in the USA. Private interests fund an enormous amount of research. Publication is blind peer-reviewed. This sort of empty generalization makes you look the fool.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
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I've been smoking weed since I was 14. I'm almost 60 now. I quit smoking when the kids were in the house, but once they headed off to college, I started up again. In my experience weed is a harmless, relaxing drug, similar in effect to having a beer or two. The difference being: with weed, you can't over dose (unlike alcohol), you can't get physically addicted, there is no hangover and it actually helps prevent misuse of other drugs like alcohol. I drink MUCH less if I'm smoking a bowl. It has never made me interested in other drugs, and it certainly has had no negative effect on my work or business. In fact, I'm much more creative when I relax with a pipe. Some of my best ideas come to me then.

There is nothing better than sitting on the back porch with my girlfriend, sharing a pipe at the end of the day, looking at the Hudson and watching the birds feed in the feeder. It is a lovely gentle experience. And while I know there are a minority that react badly to weed, that is true with anything.
LobowolfXXX
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On 2013-08-13 09:32, Russell Davidson wrote:
Nobody dies from Marijuana, nobody.


Part of the reason there are fewer (not to say no) marijuana-related deaths (unless you don't count stoned driving, but why wouldn't you?) is precisely *because* it's illegal.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2013-08-13 06:14, irossall wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-13 04:54, Russell Davidson wrote:
I wonder how many of you who disagree about the wonderful properties of said plant will then go home & have a drink of alcohol?

Ooh, drink & cigarettes, good taxable drugs. Nothing wrong with those huh?


Alcohol and cigarettes are LEGAL and the Government has deemed them much safer and better for us than Marijuana. Too many people have died under the influence of Marijuana. Alcohol and cigarettes are much safer and far fewer deaths are associated with their use.
If you want to get yourself educated about the true horror's of Marijuana use I suggest you watch "Reefer Madness" and "Marijuana, Assasin of Youth". These two educational films were part of my drug education, both in school and in my basic training at Lackland Air Force base.
For those who may not know, Marijuana is THE gateway drug to heroin use. Just what we need, a bunch of junkies breaking into our homes and killing us in our sleep in order to pay for their addiction.
Iven Smile


As you can tell from some of the responses to your post, the Internet killed irony (long ago). Made me smile, anyway.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Slide
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"Part of the reason there are fewer (not to say no) marijuana-related deaths (unless you don't count stoned driving, but why wouldn't you?) is precisely *because* it's illegal."

oh good. so there are no heroin related deaths because it is illegal as well I suppose.
Slide
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"As you can tell from some of the responses to your post, the Internet killed irony (long ago). "

What was the ironic part?
Slide
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"unless you don't count stoned driving, but why wouldn't you?)"

I've never heard of a case of someone getting into an accident because they were stoned. It is usually because they are drunk.
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As a side note: the brilliant physicist richard Feynman was a major weed smoker. He stopped drinking alcohol because he felt it would damage his intellect. He had no worry about weed though and was a big advocate of its use.

In my life, I've gotten to be friends with a number of very successful entrepreneurs (guys who made a lot more money than me) and in almost every case, they all liked to get stoned.

Carl Sagen was another scientist who was a regular weed smoker.
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On 2013-08-13 11:36, Slide wrote:
"unless you don't count stoned driving, but why wouldn't you?)"

I've never heard of a case of someone getting into an accident because they were stoned. It is usually because they are drunk.


This makes your own experience universal right? My grandfather smoked and drank and ate wrong till he finally died at 84. Should have died much earlier if you listen to experts. Was this true for EVERYONE just because it worked out for him?

Why is it always the I want to smoke my pot so make it legal crowd who think their experience is universal?

Again I take no position on it either way. But at least use a logical arguement for us ok? It is funny I think I can tell most of the time when the "I smoke pot all the time" crowd posts LOL.

Haven't you promised to leave us like a billion times?

And for the record MANY brilliant people not only used or use pot, but have taken opium, heroin and other drugs. So what? That is seriously your arguement for pot use? LOL.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Magnus Eisengrim
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There are several conversations going on here.

1. The OP is about the quality of evidence for marijuana and its derivatives for MEDICAL PURPOSES. Dr. Gupta has changed his position on this.

2. Many people are arguing for legalizing or decriminalizing marijuana.

3. Some are claiming that pot would be legal already were it not for a vast (American) conspiracy.

4. The new entry is the consideration of how current illegality may deter some possible bad effects of marijuana use, including driving while stoned.

Anyone care to search for relevant statistics on accidental death while under the influence of pot?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Dannydoyle
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Well GDW will data mine and cherry pick some statistics for us in a minute. Then put up a graph that is supsect at best.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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"Anyone care to search for relevant statistics on accidental death while under the influence of pot?"

It would have to be one where ONLY weed was found in the system and no alchohol. Be curious to see the stastics on that myself. My guess is that it doesn't rise above the statical average of a totally sober person driving.
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