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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Americans Renouncing Citizenship Jumps Sixfold As Tax Law Looms (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Natural Mystic
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"The number of individuals who renounced their U.S. citizenship jumped to 1,131 in the second quarter of this year, a whopping sixfold increase over the same three-month period in 2012, when just 189 Americans gave up their U.S. passports, as Bloomberg reported Friday."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/12......166.html
"You never change the existing reality by
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Dennis Michael
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When the tax rate gets up to 75% many more will jump ship. And yes there are counties where this is the tax rate.
Dennis Michael
Mr. Mystoffelees
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I would posit that, if you take into account all tax in the USA, including "hidden" tax such as sales, gasoline, payroll, estate, city, county, state, etc., we are already there and beyond. This is before you take into account the fact that, often, we are being double and triple taxed due to taxes levied against the gross dollar rather than the after-tax dollar. Truly a wonder that our "fair share" leaves us anything at all to spend or save...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Slide
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"Truly a wonder that our "fair share" leaves us anything at all to spend or save..."

Well, good luck finding a place with lower taxes.

Never understood this tax nonsense. I pay as much or more taxes than most people. I look at it as the cost of doing business. I was a theater major in college, until my late 30's made my living as an artist. After that I became an entrepreneur. I really don't know of another country that allows one to so easily set up business for yourself and have as much potential income as you want, if you are ambitious.

I now have a beautiful home overlooking the hudson on a piece of land that is absolute paradise, I run my own company from my house, I make a very good 6 figure salary, and I have close to a million bucks in the bank as savings. Only in America. So, yeah, I pay my taxes at the top level and my real estate taxes are about $19k a year. But that is what it costs to have the opportunity I've had.

Rent on Madison Ave ave is always going to be higher than in the ghetto. Location, location, location.

there is nothing that prevents you from making as much money as you want and to have the life you want to lead, to change courses mid stream, without degrees, status, or family influence in America. Or as little.

But complaining about taxes is a waste of time in my opinion: I'm happy to pay my taxes, which are actually pretty low compared to the rest of the world. I gladly pay taxes for the opportunity it affords me.

In America, if you want to make more money, there is really nothing stopping you. If you think you are paying too much in taxes, why not go out and figure out a way to make more money.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2013-08-13 09:36, Slide wrote:
"Truly a wonder that our "fair share" leaves us anything at all to spend or save..."

Well, good luck finding a place with lower taxes.

Never understood this tax nonsense. I pay as much or more taxes than most people. I look at it as the cost of doing business. I was a theater major in college, until my late 30's made my living as an artist. After that I became an entrepreneur. I really don't know of another country that allows one to so easily set up business for yourself and have as much potential income as you want, if you are ambitious.

I now have a beautiful home overlooking the hudson on a piece of land that is absolute paradise, I run my own company from my house, I make a very good 6 figure salary, and I have close to a million bucks in the bank as savings. Only in America. So, yeah, I pay my taxes at the top level and my real estate taxes are about $19k a year. But that is what it costs to have the opportunity I've had.

Rent on Madison Ave ave is always going to be higher than in the ghetto. Location, location, location.

there is nothing that prevents you from making as much money as you want and to have the life you want to lead, to change courses mid stream, without degrees, status, or family influence in America. Or as little.

But complaining about taxes is a waste of time in my opinion: I'm happy to pay my taxes, which are actually pretty low compared to the rest of the world. I gladly pay taxes for the opportunity it affords me.

In America, if you want to make more money, there is really nothing stopping you. If you think you are paying too much in taxes, why not go out and figure out a way to make more money.


You're putting us on, right?
There certainly are some industries which are much easier to enter than others, but this kind of thinking as an overall view of what it's like to be entrepreneurial in america is a joke:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillip......the-u-s/
http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2013-08-13 04:04, Natural Mystic wrote:
"The number of individuals who renounced their U.S. citizenship jumped to 1,131 in the second quarter of this year, a whopping sixfold increase over the same three-month period in 2012, when just 189 Americans gave up their U.S. passports, as Bloomberg reported Friday."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/12......166.html

The headline talks about sixfold, but elsewhere it talks about a threefold increase ... "Since January, 1,810 Americans have turned in their U.S. passports, versus just 649 during the first half of 2012." In any case, I suspect this is just a temporary blip as a result of new tax laws targeting people hiding their money in foreign tax sanctuaries etc.

http://www.newser.com/story/172454/recor......hip.html

The number of citizenship renouncers is not huge, but it is growing in record numbers—of the 6 million Americans living outside the country, 1,130 expatriated themselves in the second quarter of this year, more than all of 2012, and the single highest quarter ever recorded, the Hill reports.

The main reason, lawyers tell the Journal, is the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, which requires overseas citizens and green card holders to declare their offshore assets. For wealthy citizens living in Asian countries like Hong Kong, where the individual tax rate is a maximum of 15%, the US tax burden can seem heavy—not to mention the forms they have to fill out. "My decision was less about the actual amount of taxes I had to pay, and more about the system," says a Hong Kong investment banker who renounced his citizenship. "I'm not an ultrawealthy dude. It was the hassle with all the paperwork."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dannydoyle
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Just goes to show how full of crap GDW is. Turns out you CAN leave if you want.

Slide bragging about this stuff, well means little when you are a pseudonym.

And the irony you seem to miss is it is not the people with money who are hurt by taxes. Even if they are taxes directed at the rich. The middle class and working poor always pay them. A gasoline tax hurts the working poor FAR more than the rich. When a tax is levied on a producer that tax is passed along on EVERY level of the product. This raises prices and it hurts the people WITHOUT MONEY far more than those who have it.

This is the dirty little secret of taxes. You don't EVER hurt the rich with taxes. If they own companies, they pass it along and the working poor and poor ALWAYS end up paying them. It is not fair and it bites but it happens.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
gdw
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Danny, I've never said you CAN'T leave, just that they can stand in your way if they want, and it's not as simple as "just leaving."
Could you at least TRY to be honest?
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Slide
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"And the irony you seem to miss is it is not the people with money who are hurt by taxes. Even if they are taxes directed at the rich. "

Dude, when I came to new york I made $9k a year. Half my life I lived below the poverty level. and when I was poor, I didn't own a car. I took public transportation. I had some rough tax years, but I always paid them and it didn't stop me from rising above the poverty level. complaining about taxes, in my opinion, has nothing to do with how rich or poor you are. It has to do with how lazy you are. Pay a lot in taxes? good, that means you are making a lot. Don't have enough money to pay your taxes: how bout figuring out a way to make more. That is the core of the american experience and the key tenent of capitalism. I am a huge capitalist. I think it is what makes this country great. I have no sympathy for those who sit around crying about their taxes.
Dannydoyle
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Neither do I.

But the poor rarely do that. They are hit by hidden taxes they have NO idea about. They just try to work.

Just make more huh? That simple?

Try telling that to the black unemployed at unprecidented rates. "Just make more". Yep that is the solution.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Slide
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"Just make more huh? That simple?

Try telling that to the black unemployed at unprecidented rates. "Just make more". Yep that is the solution."

Yep, that simple.

And yep, I do plan on telling that to everyone. It is the current business I'm building. Teaching people to do exactly what I did .
MobilityBundle
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I'm with Slide. Although I certainly won't say that U.S. tax policies are the very best they can be, complaining about them seems disproportionate to the other economic benefits of living in America. Perhaps, like Slide, my perspective is skewed by my own experience -- a slightly different version of the American dream.

I dropped out of high school mid-way through my senior year. Not even for any good reason... just my teen angst/identity crisis led my to the conclusion that college was a sucker's bet. So I packed my bags and went from Vegas to Indianapolis, with all the promise of a $6.50/hr job soldering joysticks at a virtual reality arcade. (In fairness, the games were REALLY awesome for their time. The bulk of my total compensation was free games, not the $6.50/hr.)

After a year of that, I realized I had made a number of huge mistakes: I didn't want to live in Indianapolis, soldering joysticks was not as fulfilling as I thought it would be, and I belonged in college. Eventually, I moved back to Vegas with a vague plan to go to UNLV, but no concrete plan.

I forget the exact details, but let's say I landed in Vegas on a Thursday in the summer. By the following Tuesday, I was enrolled in the UNLV summer term as a "special student." By the Fall, I was admitted as a regular student. By the next year, I transferred to UCSB, a substantially better (and maybe even a little prestigious) school for what I was studying -- math. I did well in undergrad and went to a good grad school. Decided academia wasn't for me, so changed my mind and went to law school. Got a great job out of law school, and have been off and running ever since.

I may not be exactly where Slide is -- I have a glorious 1250 sq. ft. house on a sprawling 2400 sq. ft. lot. (Although it's on par with a roomy closet in comparison to much of the rest of the country, in Cambridge it's actually pretty luxurious. Sometimes visitors who come over for the first time say: "Whoooooah!! You have a *back yard*!?")

My story isn't possible in most of the world. I'm acutely aware of that right now. For the past month or so, I've been living in Barcelona and Rome. Folks I tell my story to around either place react in disbelief. (Although, not to go off on too much of a tangent, but I wonder to what extent that's cultural and not part of "the system." In the U.S., there's a glorious tradition of high school or college dropouts going on to become captains of industry. Less so in Europe, but perhaps only because nobody thinks to drop out of high school or college to pursue a good idea; or people who drop out of high school or college don't think the ideas they have can be good.)

Anyways, I'll play the tax game to the most vigorous extent I can, and do my best to minimize my overall tax burden. But at the end of the day, whatever taxes I have to pay, I pay happily.
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+ 1 Mobility.

Nice post, and my point exactly.
Dannydoyle
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Oh I am not complaining about paying MY taxes, I can afford to. It is the people hardest hit by them that have trouble and it is THEY who can't just do it.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Andrew Zuber
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Quote:
On 2013-08-13 12:57, Slide wrote:
"Just make more huh? That simple?

Try telling that to the black unemployed at unprecidented rates. "Just make more". Yep that is the solution."

Yep, that simple.

And yep, I do plan on telling that to everyone. It is the current business I'm building. Teaching people to do exactly what I did .

Gotta say, there are a lot of people around here who are pretty full of themselves, but you absolutely take the cake. "Just make more" is NOT that simple, and it is ridiculous to suggest that. Care to elaborate? Or would that intrude on the sales of your impending self help DVDs?
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
Slide
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Sure, be happy to elaborate.

The concept I'm calling MicroEntrepreneurship. It entails starting a business with a recurring revenue stream, that requires very little startup capital and does not require partners or investors. It is a concept very close to my heart.

I believe people have been sold a bill of goods and they end up working for someone else all their lives only to realize in their 50's that they are replaceable and at the mercy of their employer who can toss them out at any time.

I also know people who want to start businesses but believe they have to raise huge amounts of VC capital.

I show a way to be your own boss, setting your own hours with a recurring revenue stream that will allow you to have a very good life long income. My dream is to free people from the way they think they need to build their careers.

Microentrepreneurship can be achieved in many ways, and I'll explore many of the business models that allow you to achieve financial security. I personally like membership sites. I launched my first membership site 3 years ago this month, and within the first year it was generating $90k in revenue to me. I'm currently building 3 more sites, one of which has already, in the last month, generated $!7k.

For my proof of concept, I started an invitation membership site in a very narrow nitch. I charge $20 a month and my first site has about 500 members and growing each month, each paying me $20 a month. That is $10k a month. My overhead? about $200 a month for the hosting of the site, and of course, my paypal and credit card processing fees. But that is pretty much my overhead.

You do have to learn a few things: You need to know how to use a CMS platform like Joomla. You need to know HTML and CSS and things like that, but it is pretty easy to learn. I taught myself everything I needed in a very short time.

And or course, I will be starting a membership site for other microentrepreneurs.

Can you think of something that you know that people would pay $20 a month to learn? Great, then find 499 more. YOu do that by becoming expert in social media, email marketing, linked in, and other ways of driving traffic to your site.

There is a lot more to it, of douse. But you'll have to pay the $20 to find out.

Oh, and I don't take any advertising or sponsorship money: to me that goes against the grain of MicroEntrepreneurship where you should never be dependent on a major sponsor for your revenue stream. In my model, you only pay $20, everyone pays the same, and if I don't like you, I boot you and all I lose is $20.
Mr. Mystoffelees
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I disagree with your comments, Slide. To say that "complaining about taxes is a waste of time" seems sophomoric coming in a post extolling the virtues of a free society. Doing and saying nothing is the waste of time. Saying it is great because it is worse elsewhere is fools talk. Touting excess taxation because you are currently allowed to make enough to give most of it to the government and still thrive has a name that is not well-regarded.

While you appreciate the benefits of wealth, I appreciate the benefits of being able to hold my government accountable. I absolutely do not believe all that tax money is necessary for good government. I do not believe it is being prudently spent. I also think it is specious logic to link continued freedom and wealth to letting the wealth and power of the government balloon without comment.

Really smart people have said words to the effect that those who do not know history are destined to repeat it. None of this is new...

Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Slide
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By the way Andrew,

Your response doesn't surprise me. The fact is most people don't know how to do this, hence your reaction. I am dedicating my life to spreading the word about MicroEntrepreneurship because I believe it is a way for people to free themselves forever from the slavery of working for someone else and allow them to design their own lives. I can run my business from anywhere. I work the hours I want. When I want to try a new idea, I just do it. I have total freedom in my life.

This is my mission and calling in life. You can put me down for being "full of myself" if you want. But I can tell you, this is something I'm very passionate about and believe it will help untold thousands of people get control of their lives.
Slide
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"I absolutely do not believe all that tax money is necessary for good government. "

of course not, but there is nothing I can do about it and I would rather spend my time doing things I love and care for. Government is what it is. And it always will be. I don't concern myself with it. I concern myself with the things that I can do to help people get control of their lives.
Slide
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So andrew, you are an actor.

How many actors are living in LA? How many actors would like to commiserate with other actors, privately and securely in a way that won't come back to bite them about casting directors, job opportunities, health care as a working actor, how to get into the union, what kind of deals are best for a series regular, that type of thing. Whatever it is.

Do you think actors would pay you $10 month to find out these things, especially if it was invitation only and seemed like a secret club?

All you need is 1,000 of them to give you a great salary. A great 6 figure salary. Do you think that would be hard?

I can guarantee you, it isn't.
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