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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Americans Renouncing Citizenship Jumps Sixfold As Tax Law Looms (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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gdw
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On 2013-08-14 19:24, Dannydoyle wrote:
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On 2013-08-14 19:20, gdw wrote:
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On 2013-08-14 18:03, Dannydoyle wrote:
Or actual coersion and real force.

Nobodies "fair share" is in my pocket.


See, we can agree. Though I don't know how you plan on funding police, etc.


Funding the 18 enumerated powers I have no problem with. Never said I do.


So apparently SOMEBODY'S "fair share" is in your pocket.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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On 2013-08-14 19:33, LobowolfXXX wrote:
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On 2013-08-14 19:23, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-14 18:08, LobowolfXXX wrote:
What, exactly, IS the "war on (illegal) immigration," anyway? Not having open borders?


What, exactly, IS the "war on (illegal) drugs," anyway? Not allowing free to people to engage in voluntary interactions, transactions, and contracts?
Actually, sounds identical to the war on immigration.


At this point, I can only assume your vagueness is a deliberate attempt to protect your comment from rational debate.


No, I couldn't be more clear. They are the exact same thing, people claiming the moral authority to control who can contract with whom, and for what, rather than the people who actually own themselves and their property.

It's my body, so it's my right to decide what is done with it, and what is and is not put into it, just as it's my property/money, so it's my right to decide with whom I deal, be it to hire for a job, or rent a room to, or sell me house to.
My body, my property, my right.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
LobowolfXXX
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So, are you saying that there should be no sovereign countries, or that sovereign countries don't have the right to pass any immigration laws? Or something else.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Andrew Zuber
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I think he's just saying that laws in general are silly.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
Magnus Eisengrim
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GDW holds the strong view that ownership is inviolable and that laws that have any effect on ownership are a form of violence.

Forget justice. Forget common good. It's all about holding onto what you've got.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
LobowolfXXX
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The (an?) irony is that private ownership and regulation of border property could prevent ALL immigration.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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It is why I have stopped even taking him seriously for a second.

It all comes to that. But I bet ya dollars to doughnuts if you came to take something HE owned it would not be such a cool thing in his mind.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
balducci
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On 2013-08-14 21:41, LobowolfXXX wrote:
The (an?) irony is that private ownership and regulation of border property could prevent ALL immigration.

Could, but it seems unlikely. It would cost big, big dollars to police all border property sufficiently to prevent all immigration, and I doubt private landowners (especially individual private landowners) could manage that task.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
landmark
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I don't agree with gdw, but I find him not vague at all and the quality of his argument at least the equal of most here.
Dannydoyle
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He tries to be vague to get tou to agree with him in part and then springs the "well how can you condone this behavior if you think that?" crap.

He lets you think he is reasonable and draws you in landmark. He has done it for years. He just gets angry when his feet are held to the fire earlier than he wants. He thinks it is a clever form of debate. It isn't but oh well.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Magnus Eisengrim
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I'll disagree with you here Danny. GDW has an ideological position that he holds pretty consistently. I find it hard to understand how he believes his proposed society can function without degenerating into cartel wars, but that's just part of the discussion I think. I also don't see how he elevates property rights above all other rights, or how he proposes to defend property rights.

Like most posters here (myself included) GDW sometimes seems to be exasperated that everyone else is too dense to see how obviously right he is; but that's hardly a hanging offense.

He dreams of utopia. What's wrong with that?

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
gdw
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On 2013-08-14 20:12, LobowolfXXX wrote:
So, are you saying that there should be no sovereign countries, or that sovereign countries don't have the right to pass any immigration laws? Or something else.


I'm saying they only "borders" that are real are those of property owners.
If I want to sell, or rent my property to someone, that's my business. Same if I want to employ, or work for them.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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On 2013-08-14 21:38, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
GDW holds the strong view that ownership is inviolable and that laws that have any effect on ownership are a form of violence.

Forget justice. Forget common good. It's all about holding onto what you've got.


Not quite. It's the enforcement of any laws are a form of violence, or threat there of. That's simply a fact of reality though. So the question becomes, 'is force justified when you don't like what someone is doing?'
Do you, or anyone else, have a right to use force against someone to stop them from putting something in their body, or stop them from working, or stop them from hiring someone, or stop them from engaging in any voluntary interaction with others.

Same as no one has the right to tell who you can marry, which is a contract, no one has the right to tell you who you can hire.

The ONLY way to have justice is to respect people's rights over themselves and their property.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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On 2013-08-14 23:41, Dannydoyle wrote:
It is why I have stopped even taking him seriously for a second.

It all comes to that. But I bet ya dollars to doughnuts if you came to take something HE owned it would not be such a cool thing in his mind.


Why wouldn't I be upset if someone came for something I owned? I'm not going after anything anyone owns, nor am I advocating others do that; quite the opposite in fact.

This is why I can't take YOU seriously.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Dannydoyle
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On 2013-08-15 10:19, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
I'll disagree with you here Danny. GDW has an ideological position that he holds pretty consistently. I find it hard to understand how he believes his proposed society can function without degenerating into cartel wars, but that's just part of the discussion I think. I also don't see how he elevates property rights above all other rights, or how he proposes to defend property rights.

Like most posters here (myself included) GDW sometimes seems to be exasperated that everyone else is too dense to see how obviously right he is; but that's hardly a hanging offense.

He dreams of utopia. What's wrong with that?

John

Nothing wrong with dreaming John, but the irony of him complaining CONSTANTLY about people wanting to force their ideas on him WHILE HE IS TRYING TO FORCE HIS IDEAS ON US is pretty tough to put up with.

Hardly a hanging offense sure. But it is how you act when you are exasperated that IS. Be exasperated, don't be a nit. To drag EVERY thread down the SAME road and force discussions about it is just as exasperating as those who do it about Rush, or MSNBC or President Obama.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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On 2013-08-15 11:00, gdw wrote:
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On 2013-08-14 23:41, Dannydoyle wrote:
It is why I have stopped even taking him seriously for a second.

It all comes to that. But I bet ya dollars to doughnuts if you came to take something HE owned it would not be such a cool thing in his mind.


Why wouldn't I be upset if someone came for something I owned? I'm not going after anything anyone owns, nor am I advocating others do that; quite the opposite in fact.

This is why I can't take YOU seriously.


Oh Glenn but you ARE and you are simply not willing to see it because when you are shown the holes in your Utopia you simply call names and don't even think about it.

For example Glenn what about those UNABLE TO DEFEND THEIR OWN STUFF? See Glenn government exists to help the WEAKEST among us. Your ideas would weed out the weak. It is that simple.

You NEVER discuss anything but what is wrong with OTHER PEOPLES IDEAS and NEVER ONCE address the glaring inconsistency in your Utopian dreams. If you were actually willing to discuss your ideas, instead of always bashing others and accusing others of misconduct maybe a "discussion" can happen. But you don't want to discuss, you want to proclaim.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
gdw
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On 2013-08-15 08:49, landmark wrote:
I don't agree with gdw, but I find him not vague at all and the quality of his argument at least the equal of most here.


Thanks you.

Quote:
On 2013-08-15 10:19, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
I'll disagree with you here Danny. GDW has an ideological position that he holds pretty consistently. I find it hard to understand how he believes his proposed society can function without degenerating into cartel wars, but that's just part of the discussion I think. I also don't see how he elevates property rights above all other rights, or how he proposes to defend property rights.

Like most posters here (myself included) GDW sometimes seems to be exasperated that everyone else is too dense to see how obviously right he is; but that's hardly a hanging offense.

He dreams of utopia. What's wrong with that?

John


Other than the "utopia" suggestion, thanks. Also, I don't think people are "too dense" to see how "I'm right" in my over all philosophical position, but quite often on individual points, or some people's inability to evaluate said individual points separate from their disagreement with my over all philosophy, yes, I am truly nonplussed and bemused.

On the "utopia" note, it's not utopian at all. I have no delusions that abolishing coercive government would result in an absence of criminal activity. I'm simply for removing centralized coercion from the equation.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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On 2013-08-15 11:01, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-15 10:19, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
I'll disagree with you here Danny. GDW has an ideological position that he holds pretty consistently. I find it hard to understand how he believes his proposed society can function without degenerating into cartel wars, but that's just part of the discussion I think. I also don't see how he elevates property rights above all other rights, or how he proposes to defend property rights.

Like most posters here (myself included) GDW sometimes seems to be exasperated that everyone else is too dense to see how obviously right he is; but that's hardly a hanging offense.

He dreams of utopia. What's wrong with that?

John

Nothing wrong with dreaming John, but the irony of him complaining CONSTANTLY about people wanting to force their ideas on him WHILE HE IS TRYING TO FORCE HIS IDEAS ON US is pretty tough to put up with.

Hardly a hanging offense sure. But it is how you act when you are exasperated that IS. Be exasperated, don't be a nit. To drag EVERY thread down the SAME road and force discussions about it is just as exasperating as those who do it about Rush, or MSNBC or President Obama.


Ah, yes, pesky liberty minded people who want to "force" their ideas on you by leaving you alone.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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On 2013-08-15 11:04, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-15 11:00, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-14 23:41, Dannydoyle wrote:
It is why I have stopped even taking him seriously for a second.

It all comes to that. But I bet ya dollars to doughnuts if you came to take something HE owned it would not be such a cool thing in his mind.


Why wouldn't I be upset if someone came for something I owned? I'm not going after anything anyone owns, nor am I advocating others do that; quite the opposite in fact.

This is why I can't take YOU seriously.


Oh Glenn but you ARE and you are simply not willing to see it because when you are shown the holes in your Utopia you simply call names and don't even think about it.

For example Glenn what about those UNABLE TO DEFEND THEIR OWN STUFF? See Glenn government exists to help the WEAKEST among us. Your ideas would weed out the weak. It is that simple.

You NEVER discuss anything but what is wrong with OTHER PEOPLES IDEAS and NEVER ONCE address the glaring inconsistency in your Utopian dreams. If you were actually willing to discuss your ideas, instead of always bashing others and accusing others of misconduct maybe a "discussion" can happen. But you don't want to discuss, you want to proclaim.


I'm more than happy to have a discussion, and, even on the Café, I've managed to have plenty of very fruitful ones with many people.
However, it's hard to have a discussion with someone who does nothing but keep parroting how childish he finds you and your ideas.
Who's the one who really doesn't want to have a discussion?
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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On 2013-08-15 09:09, Dannydoyle wrote:
He tries to be vague to get tou to agree with him in part and then springs the "well how can you condone this behavior if you think that?" crap.

He lets you think he is reasonable and draws you in landmark. He has done it for years. He just gets angry when his feet are held to the fire earlier than he wants. He thinks it is a clever form of debate. It isn't but oh well.


Lol, Danny, that's not "crap," that's you experiencing cognitive dissonance.
I'm not getting angry either.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
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